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<p>[QUOTE="BenSi, post: 7455070, member: 95174"]As [USER=96635]@Pavlos[/USER] just demonstrated , yes the trachea had a silver wash. It use to be very rare to see it but a huge hoard hit the market and coins still with silver wash. The market crashed at that time for trachea, so much had come in $150.00 coins became $30.00 coins. Here is a coin I bought before the hoard came to market, I do not think I could get the price I paid for it even now. Back then it was such a rarity it had a high price, I believe [USER=76221]@Black Friar[/USER] has pieces form the same hoard.</p><p><br /></p><p> The story goes these coins had so much silver the dealer thought they were Electrum , David sear examined the hoard and concluded they were not but very highly silvered. In the books a coin that had been examined had over 11% I think this coin is higher, My photo does not do it justice.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1292327[/ATTACH] </p><p> <b>John II Comnenus Billion Trachy S-1944 DOC 10</b></p><p>I rarely pick it up because it will lose silver, literally. </p><p><br /></p><p>As for your second question regarding tetartera, the way they decided were the probable mints for the coins were was site finds. A coin minted in Thessalonica would be found in greater amounts there. The coin would also have characteristics of style being minted there. </p><p><br /></p><p>Michael Hendy with the help of others research took hoard information and lost coin finds and surmised the mint location. Since his original book Coinage and Money in the Byzantine 1081-1261 printed in 1969 very little has changed in regards to mint locations. </p><p><br /></p><p>However this coin was listed as an unknown Greek location, recently while they were building the Metro in Thessalonica , excavations found these coins in such great numbers that it is now believed they too were minted in Thessalonica and not an unknown mint.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1292348[/ATTACH] </p><p><b>ALEXIUS AE HALF TETARTERON S-1932 DOC 45 CLBC 2.4.8</b></p><p><br /></p><p>So that is how we know where styles were minted, The regional AE tetartera did circulate in the capital but the site evidence shows they were minted elsewhere.</p><p><br /></p><p>What started this part of the discussion [USER=74222]@Herberto[/USER] was the circulation patterns, we really do not know why it occurs this way, I think in the time of Alexius it was originally not the plan but by the time of his son John II the hoard finds and loose coin finds show them clearly in the split pattern. Why? again it is uncertain. but that is what the evidence is showing. </p><p><br /></p><p>[USER=74799]@Quant.Geek[/USER] posted this link to DOC IV , it is the work of Michael Hendy and goes in to a lot of the details I have discussed. He took it further than the other volumes because he included known coins not in the Museums collection.</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://www.doaks.org/research/publications/books/catalogue-of-the-byzantine-coins-in-the-dumbarton-oaks-collection-and-in-the-whittemore-collection-4" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.doaks.org/research/publications/books/catalogue-of-the-byzantine-coins-in-the-dumbarton-oaks-collection-and-in-the-whittemore-collection-4" rel="nofollow">https://www.doaks.org/research/publications/books/catalogue-of-the-byzantine-coins-in-the-dumbarton-oaks-collection-and-in-the-whittemore-collection-4</a></p><p><br /></p><p> You can find more from other academics on the Academia site , some of the most useful up to date information is from <a href="https://auth.academia.edu/PagonaPapadopoulou?swp=rr-ac-788213" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://auth.academia.edu/PagonaPapadopoulou?swp=rr-ac-788213" rel="nofollow">Pagona Papadopoulou</a></p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://www.academia.edu/25011953/P_Papadopoulou_Coinage_and_Economy_at_the_End_of_the_Twelfth_Century_an_Assessment_A_Simpson_ed_Byzantium_1180_1204_The_Sad_Quarter_of_a_Century_Athens_2015_179_194" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.academia.edu/25011953/P_Papadopoulou_Coinage_and_Economy_at_the_End_of_the_Twelfth_Century_an_Assessment_A_Simpson_ed_Byzantium_1180_1204_The_Sad_Quarter_of_a_Century_Athens_2015_179_194" rel="nofollow">(PDF) P. Papadopoulou, Coinage and Economy at the End of the Twelfth Century:</a></p><p><a href="https://www.academia.edu/25011953/P_Papadopoulou_Coinage_and_Economy_at_the_End_of_the_Twelfth_Century_an_Assessment_A_Simpson_ed_Byzantium_1180_1204_The_Sad_Quarter_of_a_Century_Athens_2015_179_194" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.academia.edu/25011953/P_Papadopoulou_Coinage_and_Economy_at_the_End_of_the_Twelfth_Century_an_Assessment_A_Simpson_ed_Byzantium_1180_1204_The_Sad_Quarter_of_a_Century_Athens_2015_179_194" rel="nofollow"> an Assessment, A. Simpson (ed.), Byzantium 1180-1204: ‘The Sad Quarter of a Century?’, Athens 2015, 179-194. | Pagona Papadopoulou - Academia.edu</a></p><p><br /></p><p>And</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://www.academia.edu/788213/P_Papadopoulou_The_Big_Problem_of_Small_Change_in_the_Byzantine_World_12th_and_13th_centuries_2010_" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.academia.edu/788213/P_Papadopoulou_The_Big_Problem_of_Small_Change_in_the_Byzantine_World_12th_and_13th_centuries_2010_" rel="nofollow">(PDF) P.Papadopoulou, The Big Problem of Small Change in the Byzantine World (12th and 13th centuries) (2010) | Pagona Papadopoulou - Academia.edu</a></p><p><br /></p><p>My knowledge comes from many sources , from Hendys original book , DOC, Academia and several books on Byzantine economy at the same time, I have also specialized in collecting these coins the last 20+ years, in doing so I needed to know more.</p><p><br /></p><p>Hope this helps satisfy your curiosity on the subject, other questions please again feel free.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="BenSi, post: 7455070, member: 95174"]As [USER=96635]@Pavlos[/USER] just demonstrated , yes the trachea had a silver wash. It use to be very rare to see it but a huge hoard hit the market and coins still with silver wash. The market crashed at that time for trachea, so much had come in $150.00 coins became $30.00 coins. Here is a coin I bought before the hoard came to market, I do not think I could get the price I paid for it even now. Back then it was such a rarity it had a high price, I believe [USER=76221]@Black Friar[/USER] has pieces form the same hoard. The story goes these coins had so much silver the dealer thought they were Electrum , David sear examined the hoard and concluded they were not but very highly silvered. In the books a coin that had been examined had over 11% I think this coin is higher, My photo does not do it justice. [ATTACH=full]1292327[/ATTACH] [B]John II Comnenus Billion Trachy S-1944 DOC 10[/B] I rarely pick it up because it will lose silver, literally. As for your second question regarding tetartera, the way they decided were the probable mints for the coins were was site finds. A coin minted in Thessalonica would be found in greater amounts there. The coin would also have characteristics of style being minted there. Michael Hendy with the help of others research took hoard information and lost coin finds and surmised the mint location. Since his original book Coinage and Money in the Byzantine 1081-1261 printed in 1969 very little has changed in regards to mint locations. However this coin was listed as an unknown Greek location, recently while they were building the Metro in Thessalonica , excavations found these coins in such great numbers that it is now believed they too were minted in Thessalonica and not an unknown mint. [ATTACH=full]1292348[/ATTACH] [B]ALEXIUS AE HALF TETARTERON S-1932 DOC 45 CLBC 2.4.8[/B] [B][/B] So that is how we know where styles were minted, The regional AE tetartera did circulate in the capital but the site evidence shows they were minted elsewhere. What started this part of the discussion [USER=74222]@Herberto[/USER] was the circulation patterns, we really do not know why it occurs this way, I think in the time of Alexius it was originally not the plan but by the time of his son John II the hoard finds and loose coin finds show them clearly in the split pattern. Why? again it is uncertain. but that is what the evidence is showing. [USER=74799]@Quant.Geek[/USER] posted this link to DOC IV , it is the work of Michael Hendy and goes in to a lot of the details I have discussed. He took it further than the other volumes because he included known coins not in the Museums collection. [URL]https://www.doaks.org/research/publications/books/catalogue-of-the-byzantine-coins-in-the-dumbarton-oaks-collection-and-in-the-whittemore-collection-4[/URL] You can find more from other academics on the Academia site , some of the most useful up to date information is from [URL='https://auth.academia.edu/PagonaPapadopoulou?swp=rr-ac-788213']Pagona Papadopoulou[/URL] [URL='https://www.academia.edu/25011953/P_Papadopoulou_Coinage_and_Economy_at_the_End_of_the_Twelfth_Century_an_Assessment_A_Simpson_ed_Byzantium_1180_1204_The_Sad_Quarter_of_a_Century_Athens_2015_179_194'](PDF) P. Papadopoulou, Coinage and Economy at the End of the Twelfth Century: an Assessment, A. Simpson (ed.), Byzantium 1180-1204: ‘The Sad Quarter of a Century?’, Athens 2015, 179-194. | Pagona Papadopoulou - Academia.edu[/URL] And [URL='https://www.academia.edu/788213/P_Papadopoulou_The_Big_Problem_of_Small_Change_in_the_Byzantine_World_12th_and_13th_centuries_2010_'](PDF) P.Papadopoulou, The Big Problem of Small Change in the Byzantine World (12th and 13th centuries) (2010) | Pagona Papadopoulou - Academia.edu[/URL] My knowledge comes from many sources , from Hendys original book , DOC, Academia and several books on Byzantine economy at the same time, I have also specialized in collecting these coins the last 20+ years, in doing so I needed to know more. Hope this helps satisfy your curiosity on the subject, other questions please again feel free.[/QUOTE]
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