Byzantine coin for identification

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Makanudo, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. Makanudo

    Makanudo Well-Known Member

    This coin is 3.18 gr, and I still havent found adequate online source for identifying byzantine coins.

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  3. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Did you check or guess what metal is your coin composed of ?
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  4. Theodosius

    Theodosius Unrepentant Fine Style Freak! Supporter

    Maybe this:

    Manuel I Comnenus. 1143-1180. BI Aspron Trachy (28mm, 4.44 g, 6h). Constantinople mint. Struck 1152-circa 1160. Christ Pantokrator seated facing on throne / Manuel standing facing, holding cruciform scepter and globus cruciger. DOC 11a; SB 1963.
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  5. Theodosius

    Theodosius Unrepentant Fine Style Freak! Supporter

    Nice looking trachy!

    I went to acsearch and started with "trachy seated throne".

    Then I added "standing" for the dude on the obverse.

    Scrolled looking for the distinctive beads on the sides of the throne, which don't appear on a lot of coins. Notice there are some letters on each side of the figure on the obverse. I was not able to use those to narrow it down, but I am sure they would be helpful.
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  6. Theodosius

    Theodosius Unrepentant Fine Style Freak! Supporter

  7. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter in hoc signo vinces

    Nice trachy there, here's one of mine...



    It's from an uncleaned hoard, therefore not terribly valuable.
  8. Theodosius

    Theodosius Unrepentant Fine Style Freak! Supporter

    I am using the free

    I don't have a paid account.
  9. Makanudo

    Makanudo Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I have been away and busy for the day...
    The obverse(unseated) has writing on both left and right upper fields.
    wisible is letter "L" in cyrillic in the left upper field and word "despot"(in cyrillic) and "N" in the right upper field.
    I do not know what the material of the coin is, but I think its copper.
    The coin was supposedly found on the sea bed, therefore the cleaned look.
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  10. Makanudo

    Makanudo Well-Known Member

    I havent tested, but its yellow - red and sharp on the edges, so copper, or some emalgam of sort.
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  11. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    @Makanudo .. The first reply of Theodosius in this thread shows that the metal of your coin is a billon (BI). That means it's an alloy of silver(30 to 40% ) and copper which constitutes the rest.
  12. Makanudo

    Makanudo Well-Known Member

    Thanks 7Calbrey!
    I have several Roman billon coins, and I am aware that co
  13. Makanudo

    Makanudo Well-Known Member

    ...pper is a soft
    metal, but this is not Billon in my oppinion.
  14. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    It could include debased silver. In this case the proportion of silver would decrease on a wide scale.
  15. Makanudo

    Makanudo Well-Known Member

    I am not an expert
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  16. Valentinian

    Valentinian Supporter! Supporter

    "Billon" is a vague term. In antiquity, silver was worth on the order of 100 times as much as copper, so even 1% silver makes the intrinsic value double and 4% silver would make it almost five times as valuable as pure copper.

    Therefore, it is important to distinguish "some silver" from "no silver". The ancients would have wanted to know how much silver, but we often don't know very precisely. Then we can call it "billon."

    In ancient coins the term "billon" is not used for the narrow range "30-40%", rather more like the wide range "some silver, but probably less than 50% and not so much it looks like good silver."
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  17. Makanudo

    Makanudo Well-Known Member

  18. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    I really wanted to do an identification website for trachys, but my limited time got even more limited due to work lately. Maybe someone else will pick up that mantle. The reverse is Virgin Mary seated on a throne holding an image of Christ. A quite popular image that can be seen in several coins. You can see the MP - ΘV legend on the right image, next to her head. The legend is a shorthand for Μήτηρ Θεο in Greek for "Mother of God". Either way, I believe it is this coin, but there are several sub-variations based on loros waist type and collar-piece jewelry:

    Byzantine Empire: Isaac II Angelus (1185-1195 CE) BI Aspron Trachy, Constantinople (Sear 2003; DOC 3b)

    Obv: MP - ΘV in upper field; Virgin nimbate, wearing tunic and maphorion, seated upon thrown with back; holds beardless, nimbate head of Christ on breast
    Rev: ICAAKIOC ΔECΠOTHC in two columnar groups; Full-length figure of emperor wearing stemma, divitision, collar-piece, jeweled loros of simplified type, and sagion; holds in right hand scepter cruciger, and in left, anexikakia; Manus Dei in upper right field

  19. Theodosius

    Theodosius Unrepentant Fine Style Freak! Supporter

    You nailed it @Quant.Geek !

    You can see whoever is on the throne is holding something round (Sear calls it "the nimbate head of the infant Christ facing"), and you can read the obverse MP - ΘV.

    The reverse looks like a match too.

    It would be great if there was an easier way to identify these.

    I am working on cleaning up a very thickly coated group of them, one of which at least looks identical to Mikki's. The others I will need some help with. :)

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  20. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    The OP coin has a different loros waist type than mine. His has nothing but dots as opposed to mine that has dots and dashes. Furthermore, mine has about 6 jewels on the collar whereas his has about 4. There are other variations as well with respect to legends and stars on the fields. A very complicated series that Sear lumps into a single entry called 2003.

    The only way to identify these coins is to know the little imagery used on these coins:

    Manus Dei, Virgin Mary, Saints, Christ and the number of individuals on the either side of the coin. That is the starting point and then you go on from there...
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