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<p>[QUOTE="KParsons, post: 3254669, member: 32926"]Great question, Doug! I also started wondering that about a year ago (just the A2 coins) and began reading the research - and doing a bit of my own. Margaret Thompson's overstrike research helped establish the order of the classes (A to K), but David Metcalf spent the most time studying the A2 series decorations, primarily in the 1960s and 1970s. Metcalf, Grierson, and other researchers all agreed that the Class A2 table needed to be re-written, but none of them made an attempt. I am working on that now. </p><p><br /></p><p>To answer your specific questions - most of the 50+ decorations on the table are actually of the 'large module' type and yes, the evidence points to the 'large module' types being earlier and the 'small module' types being later. 'Large module' and 'small module' are indications of both weight and diameter - and since we know that bronze coins weren't weighed in that day, that helps us understand the wide variation in weights. However, the die was created for a certain size coin, so that might be a better indication of the intended size by the mint workers. But it isn't an exact science - not by a long shot - this is why the A2 versus A3 distinction is meaningless. Nearly every ornamentation type can be classified as "usually small module" or "usually large module" but there are a lot of exceptions - and we know for sure that we can't order the varieties chronologically by weight except to say that "usually large" is earlier than "usually small." But I do believe they <u>can </u>be ordered chronologically. </p><p><br /></p><p>I have identified more than 20 new combinations of ornaments that aren't on any tables (including the Forum table, which I believe is the most current). I own most of these so I can study them. However, I don't believe that all varieties should be treated equally (there shouldn't be 70+ varieties!). Many "varieties" have just a handful (or 1) known and are merely one dot or minor design element different than another variety where there are hundreds known. In this case, I would call the ones with very few known as "minor variations" versus the "major varieties." One example of this is Variety 14 and 14a. I have documented the varieties of more than 4000 Class A2 coins - and there is only 1 variety 14a I am aware of - in the Dumbarton Oaks Collection. It is a mere one dot from variety 14 (which has dozens of confirmed examples). Given how imperfect these coins are made - there is no reason to believe that this should be it's own type. It's merely an extra dot likely put on a single die by a careless worker. Looking at the numbers, it would be safe to say that there are around 30-35 major varieties, with at least that many minor variations. I believe we first need to establish the major varieties from the minor variations and then we'll be better prepared to order them chronologically. </p><p><br /></p><p>I did discover a very interesting thing recently that will help us unlock the order/chronology of the A2 varieties. This is the first time I have shared this publicly - and I'm sharing it because <u>I could use your help</u>. There is clear evidence of A2 varieties being struck on top of other A2 varieties, but it is very rare to have all 3 design elements of both varieties visible for a clear identification. I have only read one paper where this was discussed (1965, David Metcalf - "Bronze Coinage and City Life in Central Greece circa AD 1000"). When documenting a hoard of coins found at Corinth, he identifies many of them as being overstruck, but none of them is clear enough for a positive identification. Tomorrow, I'll post photos of the first one of these I found that is very clear (a variety 32 struck over a variety 24). </p><p><br /></p><p><b><i>It would be awesome if everyone could look at your A2 coins and see how many clear overstrike varieties we can find ("crowdsourcing" at it's finest!) - and we'll solve this riddle together! </i></b></p><p><br /></p><p>BTW - that's an AWESOME Class F you posted, Quant.Geek![/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="KParsons, post: 3254669, member: 32926"]Great question, Doug! I also started wondering that about a year ago (just the A2 coins) and began reading the research - and doing a bit of my own. Margaret Thompson's overstrike research helped establish the order of the classes (A to K), but David Metcalf spent the most time studying the A2 series decorations, primarily in the 1960s and 1970s. Metcalf, Grierson, and other researchers all agreed that the Class A2 table needed to be re-written, but none of them made an attempt. I am working on that now. To answer your specific questions - most of the 50+ decorations on the table are actually of the 'large module' type and yes, the evidence points to the 'large module' types being earlier and the 'small module' types being later. 'Large module' and 'small module' are indications of both weight and diameter - and since we know that bronze coins weren't weighed in that day, that helps us understand the wide variation in weights. However, the die was created for a certain size coin, so that might be a better indication of the intended size by the mint workers. But it isn't an exact science - not by a long shot - this is why the A2 versus A3 distinction is meaningless. Nearly every ornamentation type can be classified as "usually small module" or "usually large module" but there are a lot of exceptions - and we know for sure that we can't order the varieties chronologically by weight except to say that "usually large" is earlier than "usually small." But I do believe they [U]can [/U]be ordered chronologically. I have identified more than 20 new combinations of ornaments that aren't on any tables (including the Forum table, which I believe is the most current). I own most of these so I can study them. However, I don't believe that all varieties should be treated equally (there shouldn't be 70+ varieties!). Many "varieties" have just a handful (or 1) known and are merely one dot or minor design element different than another variety where there are hundreds known. In this case, I would call the ones with very few known as "minor variations" versus the "major varieties." One example of this is Variety 14 and 14a. I have documented the varieties of more than 4000 Class A2 coins - and there is only 1 variety 14a I am aware of - in the Dumbarton Oaks Collection. It is a mere one dot from variety 14 (which has dozens of confirmed examples). Given how imperfect these coins are made - there is no reason to believe that this should be it's own type. It's merely an extra dot likely put on a single die by a careless worker. Looking at the numbers, it would be safe to say that there are around 30-35 major varieties, with at least that many minor variations. I believe we first need to establish the major varieties from the minor variations and then we'll be better prepared to order them chronologically. I did discover a very interesting thing recently that will help us unlock the order/chronology of the A2 varieties. This is the first time I have shared this publicly - and I'm sharing it because [U]I could use your help[/U]. There is clear evidence of A2 varieties being struck on top of other A2 varieties, but it is very rare to have all 3 design elements of both varieties visible for a clear identification. I have only read one paper where this was discussed (1965, David Metcalf - "Bronze Coinage and City Life in Central Greece circa AD 1000"). When documenting a hoard of coins found at Corinth, he identifies many of them as being overstruck, but none of them is clear enough for a positive identification. Tomorrow, I'll post photos of the first one of these I found that is very clear (a variety 32 struck over a variety 24). [B][I]It would be awesome if everyone could look at your A2 coins and see how many clear overstrike varieties we can find ("crowdsourcing" at it's finest!) - and we'll solve this riddle together! [/I][/B] BTW - that's an AWESOME Class F you posted, Quant.Geek![/QUOTE]
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