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<p>[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3436674, member: 112"]Just an observation, the way this discussion is going illustrates the problem with the very question itself, as well as the answers being provided.</p><p><br /></p><p>Ya see, people are trying to explain what they mean, what their thoughts are, but there really aren't any words that allow them to do that in a way that those reading their words can really or correctly understand what they mean. Take the words cleaned, polished, harshly cleaned, for example. If ten different people read them there's probably at least 4 or 5 different meanings, different understandings, being attached to those words. In other words, the very words mean entirely different things to different people.</p><p><br /></p><p>And yes, there is always the matter of degree to consider, and yes it matters or makes a difference. But only in some ways. </p><p><br /></p><p>For example, if a coin has a single wipe mark on it, that coin is deemed to have been harshly cleaned. But at the same time if a coin has been scrubbed with a Brillo pad, that coin is deemed to have been harshly cleaned. Or, if a coin has been polished to any degree with a cloth or rag or even a mechanical buffer, that coin is deemed to have been harshly cleaned. Or, if a coin has been over-dipped, that coin is deemed to have been harshly cleaned. And there are a hundred other ways a coin can be harshly cleaned. And with every single one of them the coin is a problem coin.</p><p><br /></p><p>What I'm trying to get across here is that it doesn't matter what the method is, or what the degree is, the only thing that matters is that if you can tell that it has been done, if there are physical traces, then that coin has been harshly cleaned. And the words harshly and improperly, they both mean exactly the same thing. So the term can be harshly cleaned or improperly cleaned - they both mean exactly the same thing. </p><p><br /></p><p>However, the word cleaned, used by itself, or used in conjunction with properly, as in properly cleaned, does not mean the same thing. A coin that has been cleaned or properly cleaned is NOT a problem coin. And there are very, very few methods by which a coin can be properly cleaned. </p><p><br /></p><p>In simple terms, cleaned or properly cleaned = problem free coin.</p><p>Harshly cleaned or improperly cleaned = problem coin.</p><p><br /></p><p>But there's a while lot of people who either don't know that or simply don't understand it. So when people read a thread like this, it's all too easy for them come away not understanding anything at all, or completely misunderstanding everything that has been said by others. And it's all because everybody has their own definitions that they apply to words. To one the same word means this, and to another the same word means that - and they are rarely the same thing.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3436674, member: 112"]Just an observation, the way this discussion is going illustrates the problem with the very question itself, as well as the answers being provided. Ya see, people are trying to explain what they mean, what their thoughts are, but there really aren't any words that allow them to do that in a way that those reading their words can really or correctly understand what they mean. Take the words cleaned, polished, harshly cleaned, for example. If ten different people read them there's probably at least 4 or 5 different meanings, different understandings, being attached to those words. In other words, the very words mean entirely different things to different people. And yes, there is always the matter of degree to consider, and yes it matters or makes a difference. But only in some ways. For example, if a coin has a single wipe mark on it, that coin is deemed to have been harshly cleaned. But at the same time if a coin has been scrubbed with a Brillo pad, that coin is deemed to have been harshly cleaned. Or, if a coin has been polished to any degree with a cloth or rag or even a mechanical buffer, that coin is deemed to have been harshly cleaned. Or, if a coin has been over-dipped, that coin is deemed to have been harshly cleaned. And there are a hundred other ways a coin can be harshly cleaned. And with every single one of them the coin is a problem coin. What I'm trying to get across here is that it doesn't matter what the method is, or what the degree is, the only thing that matters is that if you can tell that it has been done, if there are physical traces, then that coin has been harshly cleaned. And the words harshly and improperly, they both mean exactly the same thing. So the term can be harshly cleaned or improperly cleaned - they both mean exactly the same thing. However, the word cleaned, used by itself, or used in conjunction with properly, as in properly cleaned, does not mean the same thing. A coin that has been cleaned or properly cleaned is NOT a problem coin. And there are very, very few methods by which a coin can be properly cleaned. In simple terms, cleaned or properly cleaned = problem free coin. Harshly cleaned or improperly cleaned = problem coin. But there's a while lot of people who either don't know that or simply don't understand it. So when people read a thread like this, it's all too easy for them come away not understanding anything at all, or completely misunderstanding everything that has been said by others. And it's all because everybody has their own definitions that they apply to words. To one the same word means this, and to another the same word means that - and they are rarely the same thing.[/QUOTE]
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