Hello It’s now been a year and a half since I’ve gotten into ancients. Because I’m newish to the hobby and lack any peers locally I feel in the dark when it comes to purchases. If I am/could be in the market for higher end coins are there individuals/dealers that can act as consultants? Example if there was a coin in Cng webs-store is there someone I can pay to consult on a purchase? i love the history and am fascinated by this hobby. Thanks
I think many members here (myself included) are happy to help for free. Dealers can certainly fit that role as well for auctions but it is a bit of a touchy area for a dealer to talk about coins in another dealer's inventory.
We can help for free, man. Us ancients folks like to talk about ancient coins, so anytime we have an opportunity to review a coin with someone else, that in itself is its own reward.
I agree with @AncientJoe, ask your questions here for free. CT has many excellent experts with decades of experience.
Ditto for everything above. However, as you may know, it’s considered somewhat bad form to ask a question about a specific coin in an upcoming auction since others may be alerted to it and thus create greater competition for it. If I wanted to ask a question about a coin in an imminent auction, I might send a PM to one or more specific cointalk members who could advise me about the coin, rather than post about it publicly to the board. Others may disagree with this comment, but I think I am describing the conventional wisdom on this matter. I’ve always found people here happy to help.
I agree 100%. The secret to success would be to select the right person to ask. Ancient Joe would be best if you were considering an aureus while David Atherton is known here as your man for Flavians BUT you would have to preface your request with the disclaimer that you understand it he was intending to go after that lot and did not want to answer the question. Before you ask, do some back research and see who would be best to ask.
In the spirit of kicking of building my skills and understanding of being an informed buyer I can start by asking some general questions 1. If I was looking at making a purchase at a reputable site such as cng and a provinonce and or hoard information is listed, my concern is that information TrueLy verifiable? 2. My biggest concern would be unknowingly purchasing items that were somehow snuck out of hoards, countries etc and could be confiscated down the road.
In many cases, yes, but not always. The most common provenance reference you will see is a prior auction sale of the coin. For internet auctions that are still available via database (i.e. acsearch or coinarchives), all coins are photographed so confirmation is easy. For pre-internet sales, confirmation depends on whether the coin is illustrated in the old sale catalogue. Before about 1980, far fewer coins were illustrated in sale catalogues. Weight can sometimes provide confirmation in the absence of a photo, though that is more circumstantial. The same rationale applies to hoard reports. If a hoard is published, often some of the coins are illustrated and you can confirm the provenance via the illustrations. Lastly, coins are sometimes sold with the old auction or collector tickets that prove the provenance. I hope this helps.
If a major auction house is selling a coin reportedly from the Harptree Hoard, shouldn’t the individual coins easily be traced to Spink since they had the entire collection consigned to them only a couple years ago? This is an example of my concerns.
Why is that a "concern"? If you are interested in the coin, you should look up the Spink info and confirm it. If you confirm it, you may have a bit of info that other bidders lack and this might impact your bid strategy. Similarly, if you cannot confirm it, that may impact your strategy. Beyond basic attributions, auction houses cannot put major research time into every coin. I only expect an auction house to disclose low-hanging fruit regarding provenance, i.e. information provided by the consignor or via exNvmis. Collectors, on the other hand, should spend the time researching such matters, and confirming matters that are disclosed before bidding. That's part of buyers' due diligence. I have assembled a focused research library to help me find provenances for coins in my collecting area. Here's an example. I bought this coin at retail a month ago with only a general provenance of "circa 1980". Last night, I found it in Aes Rude Chiasso sale 4 (1979) Lot 240. So the dealer provided generally accurate information, but I'd never expect the dealer to spend hours poring over circa 1980 auction catalogues. That's my job!
The short answer to this specific question is that yes, you can find dealers to whom you can pay a consulting fee for their professional opinion on coins. Personally, I have never purchased an ancient coin without consulting my dealer and paying an appropriate fee for his opinion. Be aware, though, that you're unlikely to find such consulting for coins less than $1,000 so if by "higher end" you means coins over this price, you can find dealers who will help. I think a better approach at this point in your collecting career is to contact members of this site via private conversations and ask them specific questions. You can start by searching for specific coin types (e.g., "owl tetradrachms," "12 Caesars," "fallen horsemen," etc.) and find those members who specialize in those areas and would be likely to have more extensive knowledge of the coin types in which you're interested.
I'm fairly new to high-end collecting myself, and generally don't have the budget to breathe the rarefied air. But I recently bought a coin (to be unveiled in my December Top Ten) that was marginally valuable enough to possibly have a pedigree. A few months after purchase, I wrote the European dealer asking for any provenance information. The best he could do was say it was from "a European collection which has been assembled from the 70ies to the first years of the new millennium." The dealer also recommended Ex-Nvmis, which I had never heard of. (I told you I was new to this world.) So I checked it out. I determined it would probably cost me $25-50 to find out more detailed provenance info. I haven't done so yet, but might. But like I told you, I'm cheap. It is an interesting provenance-researching pay service: https://www.ex-numis.com/page/how-to-and-pricing.html
Thank you for taking the time to Reply. It is a concern because it does not appear auction houses are verifying provenance. I just assumed they were as a premium is associated with such coins. I appreciate your example and can appreciate the important ace of building a reference library
