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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Marshall, post: 1462718, member: 21705&quot;]&quot;I appreciate and respect your input, however there&#039;s something about it that rubs me the wrong way. I don&#039;t know whether it&#039;s because I disagree with you or that you state it very &quot;matter of fact&quot; (I&#039;m not usually a fan of absolute statements). I respect your opinion on the term investment, etc... however;</p><p><br /></p><p>Definition of investment: <span style="color: #333333">&quot;the</span> investing of money or capital <b><u>in <span style="color: #333333">order</span> to <span style="color: #333333">gain</span> <span style="color: #333333">profitable</span> </u></b><span style="color: #333333"><b><u>returns</u></b>,</span> <span style="color: #333333">as</span> <span style="color: #333333">interest,</span> <span style="color: #333333">income,</span> <span style="color: #333333">or</span> <span style="color: #333333">appreciation</span> <span style="color: #333333">in</span> <span style="color: #333333">value.&quot;</span> </p><p><br /></p><p>It includes &quot;appreciation in value&quot; so I&#039;m not sure where it lost its meaning. Buying a house is an investment vs. renting a house because of the equity involved. You are paying a mortgage so that your money is going towards something you can have a return in, in the future. If a house was purely for living in, everyone should just be renting. Same goes with buying a car, etc... etc... To me, it is very similar with a coin collector vs. a coin dealer. The dealer typically is buying / selling coins purely for profit / sustainability. The collector might buy a coin to enjoy in the short term, but hope that over time it will increase in value if they ever want or have to sell the coin. Similarly to how someone might want to move to a different house and they sell their current one.</p><p><br /></p><p>I&#039;m not sure who you have a grudge against, but my perception of your statement(s) is that it is almost a personal attack. I don&#039;t know if that was your intent, that is just how I am internalizing it. I don&#039;t believe anyone is &quot;propping up the prices&quot;, I&#039;m fairly certain that prices are set by supply and demand. Additionally, if you were trying to sell something (regardless of whether it is a coin) wouldn&#039;t you want to maximize the potential for profit? Why would someone sell a coin for $100 when they could just as easily sell it for $1000? If someone is willing to buy it for that price, then the prices are going to continue to be in that zone. I don&#039;t see coin prices come down until either a) demand goes down - or b) the supply goes up (Thinking about coin hoards, etc...). </p><p><br /></p><p>Again, I respect your views I just wish I knew your perspective so I could better put myself in your shoes / view.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>I think the problem can be boiled down to INTENT. An investment is made with the intent to make a profitable return. A house can be a product to the builder and HE is a productive investor. </p><p><br /></p><p>The purchaser, in most cases, intends to USE the house for shelter. In that role, it has a value based on utility. It provides shelter without regard to price. </p><p><br /></p><p>When the value of this utility rises, new investors (not builders or renovators) begin to drive the price above it&#039;s utility value and create a bubble. Bubbles happen when the supply of non productive investors money exceed the supply of product available at or near it&#039;s utility value. This changes pricing because of non productive investor demand as opposed for demand for it&#039;s utility to provide shelter.</p><p><br /></p><p>The problem is that non productive investors are encouraged while the bubble expands because all parties appear to be benefiting. But all bubbles eventually end and all are hurt. Bubbles cause irrational behavior and distort the market signals. Expecting bubbles to last indefinitely makes one a politician and a fool. I used to think only some politicians were fools, but I&#039;ve changed my mind.</p><p><br /></p><p>Back to coins. TPGs have made investing in coins appear to a safer investment than they actually are. They serve a limited purpose, not an unlimited one. It has introduced an artificial demand for coins and particularly high end coins. But when investors look to other investors to make a profit, you&#039;ve introduced a Ponzie scheme where the last investor holds the empty bag (or plastic).</p><p><br /></p><p>Now I hope this clears it up. But sometimes my efforts just turn into a slightly varied version of my original statements with the same strengths and weaknesses.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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