Buying coins with the market in a downward Spiral

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by jfscmedic, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Gregg

    Gregg Active Member

    You could be right; again, I'm just throwing theories out there.

    If your experience is coin clubs/flea markets then may the hobby appears to be dying because those things are quickly becoming obsolete - in that form.

    If I want to know about a coin I can wait until the 2nd Thursday of each month, get in my car after a long day of work, take my coin to the club and hope Kurt is there to answer my question - if he isn't it is another two week wait.

    Screw that, I'll post a picture here and get a dozen people to comment in under an hour. Thanks to the internet I can read a world renowned expert on my coin without ever attending a club.

    Internet savvy young people aren't going to be interested in joining a bunch of old guys down at the VFW. Gotta pay dues, sit through last month's minutes, wait for Harold to drone on for an hour about coppers - something I care nothing about - all to get a 10 second assessment on my find.

    This forum is the new form that coin clubs have taken.
    eBay is the world's biggest flea market with thousands of buyers and sellers.

    Maybe coin collecting isn't dying.
    Maybe it is just taking a different form.
     
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  3. Gregg

    Gregg Active Member

    Just think: If you outlive all the other collectors you'll be able to pick up some really sweat deals.
     
  4. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Guardian of The Farce, & Dead-Eye Master

    Maybe indeed. All I'm saying is that so far, I'm severely unimpressed.
     
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  5. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Guardian of The Farce, & Dead-Eye Master

    And I have, for close to three decades now.
     
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  6. Gregg

    Gregg Active Member

    You sound depressed.
    Why don't I stop by later?
    We'll talk about the old days, back when if you wanted an uncirculated coin, by golly, you had to make it yourself. ;)
     
    SuperDave likes this.
  7. FBLfinder

    FBLfinder Active Member

    Because we all learn to run before we walk. I guess i don't understand you position on the hobby @V. Kurt Bellman . It seams as if you want the hobby to die because todays collector is not worthy of this hobby.

    It must really grind your gears when you hear about inexperienced collectors buying really expensive coins and not having 40+ years experience.:sour:

    I collect coins that i like and will sometimes will do my research after the purchase just because i can and i enjoy the hobby as i please. I also support this hobby by not being critical of how one enjoys spending their time and money.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  8. FBLfinder

    FBLfinder Active Member

    P.S.

    I started off with youtube and coin rolls... maybe not the $25 worth of cents but certain had my fair share of fun hunting boxes of halves.
     
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  9. Blissskr

    Blissskr Well-Known Member

    While this is certainly a factor, I'm also in agreement with @V. Kurt Bellman that the supply glut of coins and thus dropping prices is a direct result of old time collectors leaving the mortal realm. People can talk about new collectors all they want, but even as a mid 30's guy I'm often one of the youngest people in the room at the shows I've attended. The rate of new collectors joining the hobby vs. old ones dying or liquidating is nowhere near even replacement rate levels at this point. And imo the problem is only going to get worse in the next couple decades as more baby boomers liquidate either their collections or mortal coils.
     
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  10. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Guardian of The Farce, & Dead-Eye Master

    If I could figure a way around that mortal coil thing, I'd give 'er a rip, but I feel Harry Houdini pretty much wrapped that up in the negative.
     
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  11. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Look at the influx, every day, of newbies posting (sometimes inane) questions regarding shiny objects they've picked up. The collectors who are departing this mortal coil today - and those of us in that age group - came to collecting just as accidentally and far more deliberately, meaning more of us "stuck" for the long term, but the sheer volume of questioners means only a small percentage of them have to "stick." That's the way of numismatics in the Internet Age. It's a ton easier to get started now than it used to be, which (IMO) easily offsets the more flighty way in which people behave these days. Case in point:

    This construes (and I'm not being judgmental) as totally against how people like Kurt and I (we're of the same generation) were raised. If you're going to spend money, you're going to spend it carefully and after diligent consideration of the quality of your spend, and you're going to do your best to only spend it once and not regret it later. You don't just "spend and think about it later."

    Even though I quite understand the meaning behind your post, and don't disagree with your thinking, it still kinda grates against me. :)
     
  12. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Guardian of The Farce, & Dead-Eye Master

    We "bought the book before the coin" and now it's "I'll buy it now and research later." Wow. That IS a massive "culture break" that I will NEVER wrap my head around if I live to 115.
     
  13. Gilbert

    Gilbert Part time collector Supporter

    Yes, but the price structure still lags in many instances. For example, many key date Seated Liberty Half Dollars remain high-priced even though there are numerous listings. On the other hand, the pricing of many rarely listed SLHs remain in the dumps.
     
  14. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Really the only true consistent glut are the generic common date common grade things. Plenty of the nicer material is getting harder to find. Being able to search countless inventories from your home has brought a lot of transparency to the supply side over the last 10 decade or so which put downward pressure on common items. Set building also turned more to type/buy whatever I like collecting. I wouldn't go as far to say that set building is dying, but it certainly isn't the popular kid in the collecting styles at the moment. World coins are also taking off with a much greater popularity and the percentage of collectors who at least dabble in world collecting has certainly been increasing and many have gone past just dabbling.

    The generic stuff certainly has been a causality of money getting pulled in more directions with the more varied interests most people have. Also the fact that they're always available with how many of them are made available to the internet market it's easy to see how it has become a price race to the bottom with some of that stuff. Auctions every week haven't helped in that area either especially if their buying base isn't large enough to absorb everything it just ends up creating a hard to ignore price history at a lower level.

    It really hasn't been any different than any other market. Some things are hot, some things are cold, other's are on fire or ice cold ect. What those things are has shifted from time period to time period though a few series just can't seem to heat up. Records have been set every year though in various areas which does make it hard for someone with a similar collection to not at least give strong consideration into selling and starting a new/different collection.

    The only thing coin shows are representative of is coin shows. There are plenty of types of collectors you generally won't see at coin shows it doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm not sure that part will ever change just from the nature of how shows are set up and the fact that there are good arguments for and against changes.

    I would say though that it probably doesn't help things any that there is basically a major show every 2-4 weeks now. If you miss one you know another is right around the corner.

    Greg hit the nail on the head, collecting is just changing and will continue to do so. No generation has done it the exact same or shared the exact same interests as the generation before it. There may not be a one to one replacement for each collector in every area, but there is net gain to collecting as a whole.
     
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  15. 352sdeer

    352sdeer Well-Known Member

    @V. Kurt Bellman It’s easy to be that way when the worlds at your finger tips. Just punch a little button or screen and poof coins at your door. When I started I had to ride my bike for about 5 hours round trip to go to the coin shop. Punching little button=no planning, riding bike 5 hours= planning.
    Point I’m making here Kurt is we HAD to plan, its just the way it was back then. And because of this we still plan. Although I have to admit some time I buy stupidly usually because I like it and buy anyways:banghead:
     
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  16. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Guardian of The Farce, & Dead-Eye Master

    THIS is absolutely correct. Younger collectors are less likely to be consumed with their home country's issues. My son's specialty is Russia 1924-1991. Imagine our generation collecting Soviet Union. Also, it is U.S. coins (Class 1) that is the segment of ANA competitive exhibits that is having issues finding exhibitors. World coins are stronger, AND the exhibitors are mostly younger. I know one World coins judge is younger. He's 22 and my kid. He's the ANA's youngest certified exhibit judge

    Maybe I need to amend my complaint. The collecting base of U.S. collectors by set is declining. It HAS TO BE the case. Disposable income is under pressure and collectors are wasting too much money on TPGs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  17. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I completely agree with that. I haven't really seen anything that would indicate that isn't the case either. I know type sets are technically sets which is about the only thing that could go against that, but every indicator really is pointing to series set building declining in popularity. It seems now that most people that do build a series set do it more of a side project while they wait for things they really love.
     
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  18. jfscmedic

    jfscmedic Well-Known Member

    Well So far so good. Last night I did just a quick evaluation of the collection. Didn't have time to inspect it in detail. Plus they said they won't be ready to sell until after the first of the year Which is Good because my money situation will be better then. The holidays are not a good time to find "Extra Money" They are wanting to sell and I am first in line. Most of this collection..at least the better coins have been put away for a LONG time. I found a choice AU Morgan in a flip priced $6
    They were also very understanding about the price of silver and willing to sell bulk at 10% below melt at the time of the sale.

    Here is a rundown of what I found.

    A small amount of "Pocket change" 1976 Halves Quarters and Dollars..Non silver dimes Quarters etc. I told they just to spend that if they wanted.

    About 5 albums of 2x2 packaged coins all the way from Pennies to Morgan and Peace Dollars.

    A box full of Dated and rolled Wheat Pennies.

    A bank sack with many rolls of 1964 Dimes and Quarters.

    NO Key dates..I checked all the series and didn't find any "KEY" dates. No CC Dollars No Proof sets No Gold coins No slabbed/Graded Coins.

    A few Commemorative Coins. Washington/Caver Halves and a Nice White Stone Mountain Half (Which was given to me for Looking at the collection)

    Just over 100 Morgan and Piece Dollars in various conditions from Good to Gem BU (I picked out 5 choice Gem BU Morgans I want for my collection and they are holding those)

    A hand full of Type coins. A Fine Trade Dollar (Also picked out for myself) A few large cents, 2 cents, 3 Cent Nickel coins, Two shield Nickels.

    A album of paper money including a Hawaii Silver Cert A South Africa Silver Cert A "Funnyback" Note sadly in poor condition. A few Large sized Notes.

    Just a rough guess I figure the collection is worth at least $3,000 maybe more..I didn't count the silver or look for Semi-Key dates.

    The lady said she would talked to her sister and then after the Holidays they would be back in touch. I guess we will see. If nothing else at least I got a nice Stone Mountain out of the deal
     
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  19. Gregg

    Gregg Active Member

    I'm going to call you a liar - yes, a liar (1) - and guess that you started collecting pennies out of pocket change long before you read a book on the topic. If that is true I'm going to report you to the ANA as collector of questionable character.

    I'll hold your coins for you.... you know, for safekeeping.


    NOTES
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    1: Don't read that has an actual accusation full of venom.
     
  20. Gregg

    Gregg Active Member

    This is Kurt, with his collection, after all the other collectors have died.
    Note the absence of slabbed coins.

    SMAUG3.jpg
     
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  21. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Guardian of The Farce, & Dead-Eye Master

    Actually, you're wrong. My first coin acquisitions were a 1964 dated Red Book (in 1963) and another book with more detailed grading, and fresh new Whitman folders. This came after the 1963 proof sets came in the mail and I was hooked by the magnificent quality revealed when my dad carefully opened one set and mounted it in a Capital Plastics holder.
     
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