Buying and Selling ethical question...

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

If there's writing on the 2x2, or distinctive staples or something, you can even use the same staples and holder.

Some particularly clever folks might put tamper evident stickers on their holders, but even that's not 100% foolproof, and I've never seen anyone do it.

 

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@usmc60 personally I'd take any coin back for pretty much any reason as long as it wasn't damaged in any way or removed from a sealed slab.

 

I'm not going to bother reading 3 pages, just offer the observation that when people ask for ethical permission to do something - they know deep down they are wrong and are hoping somebody gives them permission anyway.

 

See this stuff it it works great on resealing slab holders.And in order to see the seals you need a UV light.

 

I've got a question........I buy a $10 Liberty gold piece back in the '70's for $86. I discover that it is fake 40 years later. I saved my receipt. The dealer is still in business. He has the guarantee that all of his coins are genuine, and that fakes discovered, can be returned for refund. What's he on the hook for? The current value of the piece or the $86 that I originally paid?

 

The original price paid only.... meaning, lest you wish to be foolish, you'll want to know what it's made out of.

 

Well, let's say it was gold, and of the proper weight. Do I at least get bullion value?

 

This guy was reputable and nationally recognized along with being highly respected.

[Didn't happen folks. Just an what if.]

 

There are some reputable dealers out there with very good reputations. Maybe that's why they been in business for over 40 years. And some of the fakes out there are very good and even professionals have hard times distinguishing them sometimes. But there also some con artist out there that are very good at what they do. One thing I have not heard in in a while, is what they call the switch. You are a dealer and I buy a gold coin from you. And I know you have a reputable reputation. I bring this gold coin back to you. I tell you I've had it checked out and it is a fake. What this individual did, was replaced the gold coin he bought from you with a fake. Now he's back trying to give the dealer back the gold coin. Which is a fake not the one he actually sold the man.And unfortunately that reputable dealer is stuck between a rock and a hard place. One thing the dealer has no proof the coin was genuine when he sold it to you. So according to some he has to replace that coin or give you your money back. The con man makes off with the original goal coin and a refund for the fake one.On occasion when I get short and need money. I may put some of my coins up for sale. This only happened to me once. Sold this individual a homestead 004. Two days later I get an email that he wants to return the coin because it's not what I said it was. What this individual did was send me back a regular homestead quarter instead of the one that I actually sent him. He had proof that he'd sent me back a quarter. He received his money back plus original 004. So I was out one $15 coin or better. Because basically I had no proof of the coin that I sent him.Like I said that only happened once.Now I take precautions to make sure that it doesn't happen again. There is a certain way to mark coins without damaging the coin. This should only be done to circulated coins are coins that you know that have damage. Basically I can pull one of my coins out of a pile of coins. As you will see in the photos.

 

I wouldn't use any kind of adhesive near my coins without knowing exactly what kind of outgassing properties it has. A few minutes of searching and I couldn't find anything on that aspect of this adhesive.

 

Someone call CT Po Po. They stole GD avatar.

 

The adhesive is CA based and uses a resin similar to dentist's where they use a high intensity UV to set the molecule. It is still limited to the properties of "superglues"

http://www.flagshiphawaii.com/msds/Alphabetical by Manufacturer/RapidFix_adhesive.pdf

 

Totally agree on what you're saying about adhesive. But do you think an individual that would try to defraud someone, really think about gases from my adhesive. And as far as the coin markers are concerned it is a water-based clear luminescent. Even okay for human consumption. And from what I can understand the human touch can do more damage than this stuff. And if you don't like it just sit the rim in some water and it will dissipate without harming the coin. Here's another example of coin marking on a 10th ounce liberty.

 

Correct, and the point I was trying to make (tongue in cheek, hence the "" in my previous post) is that there is no way the dealer would know that you removed the coins and resealed them without any evidence, such as the photographs you posted.

And since this is an ethics thread, the next question looms: yes, you can easily get away with unsealing and resealing coins, but is it ethical? Should you do it? If you found out that a dealer did this to you, would you be outraged? If the answer is yes, then why are you doing this to the dealer?

 

Slightly different fact pattern but I recently bought my first counterfeit at auction. I was totally fooled. Sent it in for grading under ANACS Fall special. Came back N9, Cast fake. I believe it's one of these new foreign fakes that we should all be worried about. Cast in silver so it has the correct weight. Anyway the auctioneer didn't bat an eyelash. They're refunding the cost of the coin, the grading fee and my shipping costs. Of course, in agreement with others above, if you purport to sell a real 1928 S Standing Liberty Quarter and it turns out not to be real then a contract for sale wasn't consummated as there was no meeting of the minds.

 

Off-topic. The American dad TV show the gold fish would be an ideal avatar for you.Back on topic. Unfortunately in this world we live in there are all kinds of human beings on this planet. And if there's one thing I learned in life always expect the unexpected. And especially when it comes to another human being. And at no time did I ever condone someone trying to deceive someone else. And as other members have pointed out there's always a way to deceive someone. That's life and we live with it on a daily basis.

 

Just a footnote. I've also read about the real good fakes that even fool the top grading companies. Almost always a return back to the mint for final verification. Take for example the famous 1913 nickel. And if you read the article like I did. This nickel was faked by a mint employee in 1912. And he made a total of five of them 1913's. I guess the point is we all have to be careful in our acquisition of coins.

 

I am not worrying about the person trying to defraud someone, I am worrying about the individual that reads your first post and thinks this is an okay way to reseal a slab.

The last sentence quoted has me a little confused but as far as the glue, here are some exerts from the MSDS:

4- First Aid Measures:
Ingestion: Ingestion is unlikely. See supplemental section for emergency action.
Inhalation: Remove to fresh air. If symptoms persist, obtain medical attention.
Skin contact: Soak in warm water. Do not pull skin apart. See supplemental section for
emergency action.
Eye contact: Flush with warm water. If eyelids are bonded closed, release eyelashes with water
by covering the eye with a wet pad. Do not force eye open. See supplemental
section for emergency action.
7- Storage and Handling
Handling
Advice on safe handling
Provide good ventilation of working area (local exhaust ventilation, if necessary). Open and handle container with
care.
Advice on protection against fire and explosion
Keep away from sources of ignition - refrain from smoking.
Classification of fires
BS
torage
Requirements for storage rooms and vessels
Keep in original packaging, tightly closed.
Advice on storage assembly
Do not store with alkalies.
Further information on storage conditions
Keep container tightly closed in a cool, well-ventilated place.