Budget Countermarks - Vindex PR and Lysimachos with Seleucid Anchor

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Marsyas Mike, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    For about two years now I've been collecting ancient countermarks, and I have found it to be a rewarding, occasionally frustrating experience. Here are two I just got I thought I'd share. Any additional information on these would be greatly appreciated.

    A tiny Lysimachos AE 10 from Thrace with an anchor countermark. I have not been able to find another one of these online. The countermark is presumably Seleucid - most of these are oval, but this one is round. I did find a few round examples, on other AEs.

    I got this on eBay (of course!) from a dealer who has been listing a bunch of small Greek AEs, all over-cleaned as this one is. None of them are described, so I went through dozens of them looking for countermarks. His prices are fairly reasonable and he takes best offers, but they are all harshly cleaned. Despite its problems (note how the countermark cracked the flan), this is one of my favorites (and my first Lysimachos):

    CM - Lysimachos w Anchor Jun 2019 (0xx0).jpg

    CM - Lysimachos w Anchor Jun 2019 (0 det inv).jpg

    Kingdom of Thrace Æ 15
    Lysimachos
    (323-281 B.C.)

    Head of Herakles right in lion skin headdress / ΒΑ[ΣΙ] ΛΥΣ[Ι] in wreath of grain ears.
    SNG Cop. 1168-1169; HGC 3.2, 1761; Sear SG 6822.
    Countermark: Seleucid (?) anchor obverse in 6 mm circle.
    (2.51 grams / 15 mm)

    This next one was supposedly issued by Vindex during his rebellion against Nero. The host coin might be an Agrippa as, but hard to tell. This PR countermark is fairly well documented and always attributed to Vindex but I've yet to find a full-blown scholarly discussion of these (did Howgego discuss these somewhere? There is an incuse PR issued in Syria around this time, but I was confused by the reference I found). Richard Baker discusses it briefly here: http://www.accla.org/actaaccla/baker2.html

    A lot of these have been showing up on eBay and elsewhere. A hoard? Or a busy counterfeiter? The ones I've seen are mostly quite ugly and worn, like mine with pretty convincing patinas. I paid $0.99 for this slug, so I figured it was worth the risk.

    CM Vindex countermark PR Jun 2019 (0).jpg

    CM Vindex countermark PR Jun 2019 (1).jpg
    Vindex Rebellion Æ (As?)
    Moesia, Thrace or Gaul
    (c. March-June 68 A.D.)

    Agrippa (?) Æ as (or barbaric imitation?); too worn to ID.
    Countermark: PR (Populus Romanus) in rectangular punch
    Pangerl 87; Howgego 599 (?).
    (7.56 grams / 26 mm)

    I really enjoy looking at countermarks, so feel free to share any you have.
     
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  3. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Vindex? For 99 cents? Where do I sign up for that? LOL
     
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  4. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

  5. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Cool coins @Marsyas Mike ! I did not realize there were Vindex countermarks...that is really cool!
     
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  6. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I only have a few countermarked coins.

    Julia Iotape Philadelphus was the wife, sister, and cousin of Antiochus IV. Oh, the irony! Philadelphus is the Latinized form of the ancient Greek Philadelphos (Φιλάδελφος) meaning "brother-loving." This coin issued by the hyper-incestuous family has a countermark I've been unable to identify. It's not in Howgego.

    [​IMG]
    Julia Iotape, Queen of Commagene AD 38 - 72
    AE diassarion, 23.4 mm, 13.64 g, 12 h
    Syria, Commagene, Samosata mint
    Obv: ΒΑΣΙΛΙΣΣΑ ΙΩΤΑΠΗ ΦΙΛΑ∆ΕΛΦΟΣ, diademed and draped bust of Iotape, right; countermark: anchor?
    Rev: ΚΟΜΜΑΓ−ΗИΩИ, scorpion and inscription all within laurel wreath
    Refs: Lindgren-Kovacs 1887; RPC I 3858; BMC Galatia p. 109, 4; Nercessian AC --; SNG Cop VII 5; similar to Sear GIC 5514 (which has lunate sigmas in the inscription).

    Here's a better image of the countermark:

    [​IMG]

    This "brass as" of Trajan has a countermark:

    [​IMG]
    Trajan. A.D. 98-117.
    Roman orichalcum as, 8.49 g, 23.5 mm, 6 h.
    Struck in Rome for circulation in Syria (?); Struck in Antioch (?), AD 115/16.
    Obv: IMP CAES NER TRAIANO OPTIMO AVG GERM, radiate and draped bust right; c/m: bucranium within incuse punch.
    Rev: DAC PARTHICO P M TR POT XX COS VI P P around laurel wreath enclosing large SC.
    Refs: RIC 647; BMCRE 1094; Cohen 123; RCV 3243; Woytek 937v; McAlee 509; Strack 479; BN 953-5. For c/m: Pangerl 63; Howgego 294.

    And I think this is the only other one in my collection:

    [​IMG]
    Severus Alexander AD 222-235.
    Roman provincial Æ 24 mm, 9.19 g.
    Cilicia, Seleukeia ad Kalykadnon.
    Obv: AV K M AVP CEOVH AΛEΞANΔPOC, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right.
    Rev: CEΛEVKEΩN KAΛVΚA-ΔNΩ, confronted, draped, and laureate busts of Apollo and Artemis, c/m: o within Δ within triangular incuse.
    Ref: Ziegler 474-476; SNG France 2 1009; SNG Levante 761; SNG Levante Suppl. 195; SNG Pfalz 1056-61; Waddington 4468; Lindgren III 898; RPC Online VI 7043. Countermark: Howgego 670.
     
  7. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    LOVE the Seleucid CM! Here's one of mine:
    9854877D-5C32-4C34-9C86-89EA79D4DD52.png

    But how do we know that is a Vindex CM and that the PR is for populus Romanus?
    Are there others out there not from this hoard/seller that anyone has seen before?
     
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  8. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    I've answered my own question with a little internet sleuthing. This seller bought a lot from CNG and is reselling them individually (which certainly eases my concern of it being a modern forgery). As well, these CMs are well documented:
    [​IMG] Populus Romanus - The Roman People. This countermark was used by the rebels in Gaul under the leadership of Julius Vindex during the months of March through June of 68 CE. Used mostly upon dupondii and Asses.
    [​IMG]
    Figure 9. Obverse of a very worn colonial piece of
    Nero from Antioch. Circa 65-68 CE. Note that the PR countermark has been struck deliberately across the features of Nero, to deface his image.

    ...Now I need one!
     
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  9. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    You beat me to the punch, Ryro - I was working on a reply... but here it is:

    Yeah, I am not entirely convinced that PR = Vindex, if only because there is such a bewildering array of early Imperial countermarks. A full-blown scholarly hoard/die link study wasn't found by me on the Internet (which doesn't mean they don't exist, of course).

    However, there are a lot of sources for this online. Here are some that I found:

    From the Richard Baker article: http://www.accla.org/actaaccla/baker2.html

    Typical Countermarks of Category 3A.
    [​IMG] Populus Romanus - The Roman People. This countermark was used by the rebels in Gaul under the leadership of Julius Vindex during the months of March through June of 68 CE. Used mostly upon dupondii and Asses.

    The first two coins in Wildwinds under "Roman Imperial Coins of Civil Wars" show this countermark.

    Here's a Vcoin listing with lots of information (an Antioch host coin):

    https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/in...civil_war_of_6869_ad_rare/165705/Default.aspx

    From FORVM with lots of information:

    https://www.vcoins.com/de/stores/fo..._moesia_or_thrace_689_ad/1159516/Default.aspx

    From the Museum of Roman Countermarks:

    http://www.romancoins.info/CMK-vindex.html

    http://www.romancoins.info/countermark-Richard-Baker.html (the Richard Baker collection has several examples - they are arranged alphabetically by type: "PR" in this case.

    So that's where I got my attributions. The eBay seller noted this coin came from a lot he bought on a CNG auction. "This coin is part of a lot I bought on CNG Coins Auction 443 Lot 735" I haven't tracked down that auction - but he has several others (nicer ones) for sale now (for a lot more money). I noticed the $30 got scooped up this morning! I promise I have no connection to the seller except as a buyer (although a commission would be nice :D).
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
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