budget AE indo-greeks

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by chrsmat71, Sep 25, 2014.

  1. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    hi all,
    i purchased these in June as part of my summer coin surge, but didn't get them until recently. since it's officially fall, i guess i'll start a new thread. both of these are lower end coins, but somewhat rare. the closest thing i come to collecting specifically is square indo-greek bronze coins, so any time i see rarer ones for a reasonable price, i jump on them. here's the first...sorry for the background..a failed experiment. then i overwrote the original picture, then i gave up.


    [​IMG]



    Philoxenus
    100-95 BC
    Bronze Quadruple
    Weight: 7.5 gm.
    Dimensions: 20 x 19 mm
    O: City goddess (or Demeter?) standing left, holding cornucopia, and bestowing blessing
    with outstretched right hand, monogram below at left,
    Greek legend around: BAΣIΛEΩΣ / ANIKHTOY / ΦIΛOΞENOY
    R: Humped bull standing right, Kharoshthi va below,
    Kharoshthi legend around: maharajasa / apadihatasa / philasinasa
    Reference: Mitchiner 344


    Attribution mainly lifted from coininda, which is a great place...

    http://coinindia.com/galleries-philoxenus.html

    this coin did have some BD, notice the spots. i scraped all loose stuff off, soaked in distilled water, picked again just to be sure, baked in the oven...then soaked in verdi-care. we'll see how it goes.


    i'll post my other later this evening.

    feel free to post any of your budget indo-greeks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
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  3. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I like it! I've been looking at a few of these Indo-Greek types lately, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I think the magenta background is fine for such a dark coin - I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. My experience with BD (which isn't much mind you) is that sometimes you have to "cure" it a few times before it sticks.
     
  4. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Cool addition, dont own any either but like JA, have had thoughts of getting some. Shame about the BD, hopefully it doesnt return.
     
  5. icerain

    icerain Mastir spellyr

    Nice coin. Been looking to add one or a few to my collection too. The background looks alright.
     
  6. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Indo-Greek is not my area of numismatic interest, but I do like looking at the collections of others. Good on ya my friend.
     
  7. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    May be a low budget coin, but in fact very nice! I am very much into these.
    For attribution: with some effort you can clearly read the name in Greek on the right side of your left pic and in Kharosti on the left side of your right pic.
    Here one of mine (Dionysios), with an example of the name in Kharosthi. DionysiosWeb.jpg
    DionysiosKharoshtiWeb.jpg
     
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  8. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    What is the orientation of those letters? Are the bottoms of the letters at the edge of the coin, meaning the script is read from left to right?
     
  9. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    No the base of the letters is towards the center of the coins. Kharosti is read from right to left.
     
  10. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I suppose I could have looked that up. The wiki article says Kharosthi demonstrates a clear dependency on Aramaic, but I have a difficult time seeing it from that example. "Di" bears some semblance to the Aramaic Dālath, and "O" resembles Waw, but beyond that I'm not seeing much.
     
  11. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    There may be common roots, but i can not read a word of Aramaic.
    The characters on the right of my coin from bottom to top are Ma Ha Ra Ja.
     
  12. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Very interesting. Those are much closer. Ha resembles Ḥēth very closely, Ra looks like Rēsh, and there may not be an equivalent for Ja, but it looks very much like the Aramaic Gāmal. Ma is partly off-flan, so it's difficult to say.
     
  13. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    "Ma" just looks like a crescent lying on its back.
    I might give a shot a learning aramaic one day but at the moment i'm focussing on improving my arab reading skills.
    Here another kharosti legend example. Slightly different style. Its a Kushan issue fom Kujula Kadphises. (Hope you don't mind Chrsmat ?)
    TranscriptSmall2.jpg
     
  14. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    no no, don't mind all THC ...keep posting this stuff. i've always had trouble trying to figure out the kharosthi...i've been trying to do it left to right all along. i still have trouble making out the individual letters sometimes, your pictures help!

    here's my other coin, also a kind of a rare one. you can find them out there, but they're few, far between and pricey. there are a couple on vcoins now, neither much better than mine, for much more than i'm willing to pay. back to the black background....so your retinas should be much happier.




    [​IMG]


    Diomedes
    95-90 BC
    Bronze Quadruple
    Weight: 8.4 g
    Dimensions: 21 x 19 mm
    O: Dioscuri standing facing, holding spears, Greek legend around:
    BAΣIΛEΩΣ / ΣΩTHPOΣ / ΔIOMHΔOY
    R: Humped bull walking right,
    Kharosthi legend around: maharajasa / tratarasa / diyametasa
    Reference: Mitchiner 354, Bop 10
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
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  15. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Sweeeeet!!

    => nice new score, my friend!! (congrats) ... I love your "stuff"


    chrsmat turtles.jpg
     
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  16. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    Like your Diomedes, nicely readable inscriptions.
    Here a very early Graeco-Bactrian, Diodotos II:
    DiodotosIIArtemisWeb.jpg
     
  17. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    neat coin THC..i don't have any form this guy. aretemis looks cool and zeus looks rather youthful. looking at his coin on wildwinds, these were much more greek than indo weren't they?
     
  18. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    Youre right. The characteristic indo-greek bronzes only emerged when the Graeco-Bactrians had established a permanent powerbase south of the Hindu-Kush mountain range after the rule of Demetrios I. Coin designs where then adapted to the taste and customs of the new subjects.
    This is one of the first real indo-greek bronzes issued in the name of Agathokles. Interesting in this is also that the legend on one side is in Greek, the other in Brahmi script. Only later Kharosti prevailed.
    AgathoklesWeb.jpg
     
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  19. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    => ahhhh, good ol' Demetrios I ... now those were the days my friends!!

    Demetrios I Serratus AE17
    162 - 150 BC
    Diameter: 16.5mm
    Weight: 4.41 grams
    Obverse: Horse
    Reverse: Elephant
    Reference: SNG Spaer 1299

    Demetrios I Serrate.jpg



    Demetrios I Trichalkon
    200-185 BC
    Diameter: 29.5 mm
    Weight: 12.61 grams
    Bactrian Kings, Demetrius I, bronze Attic trichalkon of:
    Obverse: Head of elephant with bell hanging from neck
    Reverse: Caduceus.
    Reference: Bopearachchi-16, Mitchiner-1086, SNG ANS 209

    elephant.jpg
     
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  20. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    To avoid confusion; Steve youre mixing Demetriosses here. (But they are both nice!)
    The first you show is from Seleukid king Demetrios I. The second from Bactrian king Demetrios I.
    The second coin is linked to the advance of the Bactrian Greeks into India.
    The first is an issue of the time the Seleukids already had been forced to retreat westwards and mainly still ruled Syria.
     
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  21. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Hey chrsmat, THC, or "anyone" smart in this area (apparently "not" stevex6) ...

    Ummm, do Indo-Greek coins and Indo-Scythian coins go together, or are they worlds apart? (I admit that I usually get attracted to my coins due to their animal-reverses and/or their overall eye-appeal, so at times I am a bit dense when it comes to the culture and/or social-interactions that were going on during the times of my coins ... errr, or even their geographical locations)

    => in my defense, I do plan on "restudying" all of my coins in 5 or so years after I'm retired and have nuthin' but sweet-time on my hands (but for the moment, I am already stretching my coin-time when compared against my work-time, home-time, friend-time and most importantly, my wife-time!!) ...

    Question => do these next few coins fit into this thread, or are they worlds apart? (thanks gang) ........ ummmm, I've often heard that there is no such thing as a stupid question, but occasionally I've disagreed (sadly, you guys may consider this "one of those times"?) ...

    INDIA, Kushan: Vima Kadphises
    AE tetradrachm
    circa 112-127 AD
    Diameter: 28 mm
    Weight: 16.88 grams
    Obverse: King standing facing, sacrificing at altar left, tamgha and club in right field, Greek legend around: BACIΛEVC BACIΛEWN CWTHP MEΓAC OOhMO KAΔΦICHC
    Reverse: Oesho (Siva) standing facing, Bull Nandi behind, nandipada at left, Kharoshthi legend around: maharajasa rajadirajasa sarvaloga isvarasa mahisvarasa vima kathphishasa tratara
    Reference: Göbl 762, MAC 3033

    India Kushan.jpg


    Indo-Scythian Kings, Azes. AE-Unit. Brahma Bull / Lion
    c. 58 - 20 BC
    Diameter: 27 mm
    Weight: 13.35 grams
    Orientation: 10 h
    Obverse: Rajadirajasa Legend. Lion standing rt., monogram above
    Reverse: Brahma bull rt., monogram above, shi before
    Reference: Senior 102.120

    Indo-Scythian Kings - Azes.jpg


    INDO-SKYTHIANS. Azes. AR Tetradrachm
    Circa 58-12 BC
    Diameter: 27 mm
    Weight: 9.32 grams
    Obverse: King on horseback right, holding spear
    Reverse: Zeus standing slightly left, holding thunderbolt and scepter; monogram to lower left, Bha to right
    Reference: Senior 80.10T

    Indo-Skythians Azes AR Tet.jpg
     
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