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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Insider, post: 3208934, member: 24314&quot;]EWC3, posted: &quot;We seem to be at cross purposes here. I suspect also that The ENTIRE COIN is crystallized throughout. But cleaning coins only requires dilute acids, and <b>they do not etch metal.&quot;</b></p><p><br /></p><p><i><span style="color: #660066">We&#039;ll disagree here as it depends on the particular acid and the composition of the metal and how it was formed. </span></i></p><p><br /></p><p>What they do do is remove encrustations and reveal all sorts of residual surfaces underneath. The soil is not a machine turning out coins with lovely patinas, or indeed any other consistent result. The surface patterns I see on these coins seem to me be be random acts of corrosion in the ground, merely revealed by chemical cleaning.&nbsp;&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #660066">We&#039;ll disagree again.&nbsp; This is a typical crystallization pattern seen on many casts.&nbsp; They are not usually present on corroded coins.</span></p><p><br /></p><p>Pavlos, posted:&nbsp; &quot;Sorry, but I trust David Sear on this one.&quot; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #660066">Don&#039;t be sorry, WE ALL trust Mr. Sear.&nbsp; He makes a living with ancients.</span></p><p><br /></p><p>&quot;How do you know the person who cleaned this coin used &quot;dilute acid&quot;. Who knows that person was an idiot, did not know what he was doing and put it in concentrated strong acid. Or who knows that person wanted to sell his coins quick and put it in concentrated strong acid so the coin would be quicker cleaned?&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #660066">None of us was there.&nbsp; We know NOTHING about the coin&#039;s history EXCEPT that you bought it an posted it.</span>&nbsp; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>&quot;I have seen nitric acid with copper many times. It will look very shiny and an unbelievable unregular surface, just like the coin above. As I said, you don&#039;t know the history of this coin nor the way it is cleaned. If you don&#039;t have chemical knowledge then don&#039;t rule out that no chemicals have caused this, it will always stay a <b>possibility</b>.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #660066">That&#039;s for sure and the various possibilities make things interesting!&nbsp; </span></p><p><br /></p><p>&quot;Besides that, what is your definition of &quot;dilute acid&quot;? If you mean it is low concentrated then &quot;diluted&quot; is a very wrong word to use in Chemistry. For example Hydrochloric acid is a GAS in water and never reaches more then 37% concentration, so it is diluted already. However it is still a strong acid and highly concentrated. If I put 1L concentrated acid in 10ml water it is diluted but still very high concentrated.&nbsp; For your definition you use the word &quot;low concentrated acid&quot;, actually even that is wrong because &quot;low&quot; is a matter of personal opinion, that&#039;s why numbers are always necessary, either percentages or ratios.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #660066">You are getting way off the subject with the acid.&nbsp; </span><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 102)">I&#039;ve played with concentrated Sulfuric, Nitric, and Hydrochloric acids and metal in my fathers business since I was a teenager.&nbsp; I&#039;m probably very fortunate to have both eyes and fingers.&nbsp; Nevertheless, I flunked college chemistry the first time I took it and I still don&#039;t know much about it - acid into water right?</span></p><p><span style="color: #660066"><br /></span></p><p><span style="color: #660066"><span style="color: #660066">Anyway, the important thing is I&#039;ve examined a lot of etched metal under a stereomicroscope and the chemistry/concentrations you bring up is of no use to me.&nbsp; </span>Just about every ancient coin has been cleaned with something.&nbsp; It is funny to me that this crystal patter is uncommon.&nbsp; The dealer has two of them and you posted an image of another.&nbsp; Perhaps the dealer who sold you the coin needs to refine the way he treats them before the sale.&nbsp; Perhaps his supplier is the one destroying coins. </span></p><p><span style="color: #660066"><br /></span></p><p><span style="color: #660066">Let&#039;s get back on topic.&nbsp; SHOW US THE EDGE!&nbsp; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie14" alt=":angelic:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> Please.&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p><p><br /></p><p>&quot;This is extremely wrong, no internal crystallization takes place if you leave silver in saline solution. Actually silver chloride crystals are formed, the silver itself does NOT crystallize in saline environments nor is it INTERNAL. It are just silver chloride crystals that form and yes if you heat it in a bread oven then it will decompose. If you want to remove INTERNAL crystallization of the METAL silver then you need to heat till the melting point of silver. Chemistry&quot;<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie11" alt=":rolleyes:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> <span style="color: #660066">More unrelated &quot;chatter.&quot;&nbsp; Your coin is mostly </span><i><b><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0)">COPPER!&nbsp; </span></b></i><span style="color: #660066">Perhaps we can confine the discussion to that metal and its alloys. Silver was originally brought into the discussion because someone didn&#039;t think the patterns on metal could be called crystals although that&#039;s what they are commonly referred to in the literature.</span></p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </p><p>Ken Dorney, posted: &quot;Yes, of course.&nbsp; That&#039;s [<span style="color: #660066">Ancient</span>] coin-making 101.&nbsp; Should not surprise anyone.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #660066">It shouldn&#039;t but there are a lot of less knowledgeable folks than you who may be reading this.&nbsp; Here is the thing.&nbsp; Why don&#039;t the millions of ancients struck on cast planchets made of bronze look like the OP&#039;s coin and the other coin the dealer has?&nbsp; I&#039;ll bet most were cleaned in the past. </span>&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #660066">While I respect the opinion of experts, I don&#039;t take their word as fact until all my questions are answered and I become convinced.&nbsp; In my experience, too many of them have turned out to be wrong.&nbsp; </span></p><p><span style="color: #660066"><br /></span></p><p><span style="color: #660066">For now, I&#039;m just taking all sides of the discussion to learn as much as I can about a bronze surface that is very unusual to me.&nbsp; So far, the consensus seems to be that <i>the OP&#039;s coin is genuine</i>.&nbsp; <i>It is not rare or unusual.</i>&nbsp; <i>It has suffered some type of cleaning that has modified its surface.</i>&nbsp; </span></p><p><span style="color: #660066"><br /></span></p><p><span style="color: #660066">I&#039;ve posted it on another forum and I&#039;m hoping the OP will image a few parts of its edge - if only in the interest of educating me.&nbsp; Goodnight all.</span>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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