Bronze disease

I was at the Evansville Indiana coin show a few weeks ago and came across a very nice gentleman with an extremely large and eclectic collection of world and ancient coins. He seemed very knowledgable but argued that fact that bronze disease is a myth. I have read a little about this affliction but was wanting some opinions on the matter. I don't have any coins with bronze disease so I'm just curious.

 

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Then that dealer is in la la land, must feature unicorns and flying elephants. Its horrible and can destroy a coin if left untreated, which is hard in its self.

Read more below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_disease

 

He also informed me he cleaned all of his coins. Most of his ancient Romans were unrecognizable and looked like blanks. I hate to berate people I barely know especially since I am an amateur, and granted he was a very nice man, but i just felt the need to inform you all of my odd experience at this coin show.

 

there was a coin show in evansville? dang...i missed it! i'm not far away really. i went to a coin show there last november, and i may have ran into the fellow you're talking about. he had ancient coins in several binders, many of which he had cleaned himself. several were over cleaned. some had very bad BD....very real BD. he seemed to be very sure that it was "patina", so i didn't press the matter.

ah yes, you posted while i was writing, that was the guy. he seemed like a nice fellow indeed, i talked to him for several minutes.

 

Well, you typically run into a few oddballs at shows that march to the beat of a different drummer.

 

Yea older gentleman that didn't have many lookers other than myself. I would give a name but I don't know if it's appropriate. And Evansville in having another coin show Black Friday and Saturday this year, November 28-29 I think. There was another dealer there by the name of Kevin that had some decent coins but they seemed overpriced.

 

And about the BD...I asked him about it specifically cuz his ancient Chinese coins had that soft blue powdery appearance to them...but like u said, he argued it to be patina and I'm an amateur so who am I to question his authority.

 

yes, that's the guy for sure. i wouldn't drop his name here. but if you know him, or have his contact information, i would let him know that some of his coins have BD for sure...and that the powdery stuff is not patina. i tired to tell him his coins had BD, but had just met the guy and didn't feel comfortable pressing matter. most of the coins that seemed to have BD didn't seem to be worth much anyway. he was a very nice guy, and seemed knowledgeable some aspects of coins...which is why i was so surprised he didn't recognize the BD he had.

hey nathan, were you the bearded fellow the purchased the english hammered coin off of him? if so, we talked a bit! lol!

i purchased this very nice coin from him for a reasonable price....no bd here.





if "kevin" was the fellow selling slabbed ancients, i know who you're talking about as well. i've purchased several denari off him...ask if he brought his non-slabbed coins with him if you run into him again.

 

No I'm clean shaven and the spring show I went to at the tropicana casino hosted by Evansville coin club was my first show ever. I plan on returning this November when they have it again. As for Kevin...he did not have any stabbed coins but there was another dealer their with ALL stabbed ancient coins by NGC but all were overpriced in my opinion as well. I didn't catch his name cuz he didn't come off as being to friendly or interested in talking. Maybe I'll see u there later this year hopefully. Just keep in touch. I live in Evansville.

 

In the defense of the seller: Some of us get very tired of hearing about bronze disease whenever a coin is shown that has a green spot on it. Bronze disease is a very specific situation where there is a powdery green with erosion underneath. There are, at present, a rather large group of Chinese cash making the rounds that have a blue patina that is not BD so I would not be too quick to say without seeing the items whether I believed this is real or 'cry wolf' BD. Certainly BD is a real problem and certain cleaning methods seem to make certain coins more prone to it than others. BD is much more common today than it was years ago and is not something to be taken lightly but neither is the tendency of some to see it where it is not. Obviously there are people who know more about coins and photography who feel comfortable diagnosing it from photos than I do AND I see nothing wrong with beginners just walking away from a BD leper when there is any doubt. What I would not do is try to convince a seller that you know all when you are in the stage of the process where you are avoiding anything green, blue or whatever. Even if you are right, it is unlikely you will convince the guy who cleans his own and knows everything anyway.

The sure sign of BD is when you remove it all and it comes back. When I clean a coin with real or suspected BD, it gets put in a special place (quarantined) and is examined at least weekly for a year. I currently have four coins in quarantine including one tough case that I have treated several times for recurrences that will probably never be put back in the general population even though it is now over six months since its last treatment. Patina does not get greener or bigger just sitting there when you see a coin again and again. BD does.

The other thing that is green and grows is when you put coins in the soft plastic flips and store them in damp conditions (or without proper drying after cleaning). I have seen massive green slime from this as well and even bought a few coins which were savable. BD is dry; flip slime is not.

 

hi its a copper coin does this coin suffer from bronze disease or its something else ? plz help

 

I know nothing about modern coins and have never seen bronze disease on something that new. Does it occur? This does not look like BD.

 

its an 1880 quarter anna of british india made of copper ...plz give ur valuable opinion will this deposit destroy the copper surface?

 

Is it PATINA or Bronze disease ? Plz notice some greenish areas in both obverse and reverse

 

not BD.

 

Can someone please post pics of a BD coin so we (modern collectors) get an idea of what it should look like?

 

Note on the second one: base silver can get bd. The left image shows a pin point that touched the green and wiped it away in part as shown on right. That was a light touch but you will never get it all that way. The top coin has been treated more than once and is still prone to relapse.

 

It is the same chemical compounds from the reaction of active coin metal and environmental gases, water, and soil contaminates. The difference is that ancient coins can have hundred of years in different weather, what with flooding, droughts, etc where active reactions may occur in centuries with lots of rain or snow melt and then centuries of heat and drought that dehydrates the compounds. Most of the copper compounds exist in both hydrated and nonhydrated forms, this changes their color and crystalline arrangement. But BD, verdigris, and any other corrosion process is basically the same reactions over differing time periods.

 

HERE IS THE FULL PICTURE ( SOMETHING BLACKISH GREENISH ) ..PLEASE ANALYZE AND TELL ME... IS IT VERDIGRIS, BD OR SOMETHING ELSE ..OR INITIAL STAGE OF BD.?..WILL THIS COIN BE DAMAGED OVER TIME ..OR WILL PROPER PROTECTION KEEP IT SAFE ?

CAN THIS COIN BE GRADED BY NCG OR PCGS

 

That is not BD or Verdigris, it looks like staining or it has been contaminated by being in contact with other coins or metals.