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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Lehigh96, post: 1076654, member: 15309&quot;]You can&#039;t have it both ways Doug.&nbsp; The TPG&#039;s (PCGS &amp; NGC) were founded in 1986 &amp; 1987 respectively.&nbsp; According to you, the toned coin market didn&#039;t begin until 2002.&nbsp; What that means is that according to you, toned coins brought little to no premium to the majority of collectors.&nbsp; Therefore, there was no reason for the TPG&#039;s to bump the grade of a toned coin.&nbsp; I have stated many times in the past that I don&#039;t agree with the value grade bump that accompanies toned coins and don&#039;t think it is necessary.&nbsp; However, I completely understand the logic behind giving a coin that sells at multiples of bid a bump to the next grade.&nbsp; Once the toned coin market exploded, the TPG&#039;s felt it necessary to reflect the added value of attractive toning in their grading.&nbsp; It is logical why they didn&#039;t market grade toned coins from the start and it is perfectly logical why they changed their standards.&nbsp; Again, this aspect of market grading evolved as the toned coin market exploded.</p><p><br /></p><p>Pedigreed coins follow the same logic as toned coins.&nbsp; I hope you are not disputing that coins owned by people like Eliasberg sell for more money than other coins of the same grade.&nbsp; The grade bump is a another instance of value grading by the TPG&#039;s.&nbsp; Again, just like you, I don&#039;t agree with it, but I understand it.&nbsp; Now the key date thing has also baffled me.&nbsp; These coins already have higher values based on their rarity.&nbsp; Market grading a key date serves no logical purpose other than to perpetuate gradeflation.&nbsp; And I have no idea what they would do if they suddenly found 100 rolls of gem BU 1916-D Mercury Dimes in a vault somewhere.&nbsp; But somehow I think the overgrading would be lost in the price free fall that would ensue from such a discovery.&nbsp; However, I do see your point and agree, market grading a coin because it is a key date makes no sense.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Doug, these are the tactics that you use that aggravate me so much.&nbsp; We are a couple forum dweebs (as Laura says) and we have easily predicted what would happen if gradeflation goes unchecked.&nbsp; Do you seriously expect me to believe that the management of the TPG&#039;s is so short sighted as not to be able to see the same inevitable ending.&nbsp; You want me to believe that the TPG&#039;s are actively taking steps that lead to gradeflation just to make a quick buck.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>That is completely laughable.&nbsp; Red copper represents a very small portion of the coins graded by the TPG&#039;s.&nbsp; What you are talking about would encompass every coin they ever graded.&nbsp; There is no way they would be able to honor the grade guaranty under the circumstances that you have described and you know it.&nbsp; For once, just admit that you are wrong.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>For about the 100th time, I agree that gradeflation exists.&nbsp; Our difference of opinion hinges on the cause of gradeflation.&nbsp; The fact that the TPG&#039;s recognize gradeflation as a threat does not bolster your claim.&nbsp; They can&#039;t recognize it as a threat and then follow a policy that hastens that same threat.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Everything you have posted on this subject hinges on the fact that the TPG&#039;s are following a course of dishonest behavior.&nbsp; However, on this subject you are willing to take the word of the TPG at face value.&nbsp; I guess your argument about not trusting someone who has previously lied to you is just another one of your parlor tricks.&nbsp; But beyond that, the plus grading system automatically slows down the gradeflation process independent of the laser recognition system.&nbsp; Think about it Doug.&nbsp; If a coin is an MS64, now it has to upgrade twice to get to MS65.&nbsp; If you really don&#039;t understand how this new system slows gradeflation and protects resubmission revenue, then I can&#039;t help you.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Now that I am done laughing let me state that this is ridiculous.&nbsp; Everyone I know has lied about something important in their life, including myself.&nbsp; Do you limit the distrust only to people who lie to you?&nbsp; That seems a little silly to me.&nbsp; In answer to your question, I rely on poker skills to determine if someone is lying to me.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Another parlor trick.&nbsp; You have stated at least twice that you can&#039;t prove that the wear is caused by either roll friction or circulation.&nbsp; But now you are saying that they grade coins with obvious circulation wear as MS using roll friction as an excuse.&nbsp; BTW, these are the coins I wanted you to provide an example.&nbsp; A coin that shows obvious circulation wear residing in an MS holder.&nbsp; I am still waiting for you to show me one.&nbsp; Others have posted some Lincolns, how about you give a silver coin?</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I know my next profession.&nbsp; When the TPG&#039;s lower their standards for the first time ever, I will start buy up all the overgraded coins for pennies on the dollar from the uninformed and submit all the coins to the TPG&#039;s for grade review and collect the checks. </p><p><br /></p><p>If they decide not to pay, I guess I will have to join the class action lawsuit that sure to follow.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I have heard of them.&nbsp; Are you claiming that no whistleblower in history violated one of those agreements.&nbsp; The whistleblower would most likely be part of the lawsuit process.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Bill O&#039;Reilly you are not Doug.&nbsp; And I am not the one in desperate need of a Star Trek movie.&nbsp; Where is your favorite forum buddy Spock, I bet he could help you![/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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