Bonediggers 2006 Christmas Contest

My opinion of tpgs has changed over the years. I was collecting regular coinage long before tpgs arrived on the scene, and I thought they would be the solution to many of the ills plagueing the hobby. While they did provide a pretty good solution to some of the problems, they also created some new problems, and IMO, have not been an overall positive influence. I became rather frustrated with the hobby as it seemed to be departing from the virtuous points of education, appreciation of the various attributes of the coins, and the enjoyment that was available from working on a collection. Money seemed to be the emerging focal point of many of those involved, and any method to get more of it seemed acceptable to a majority of sellers.

IMO tpgs are primarily a tool used to maximize profits. On the ebay board, it seems the two most common questions by a newbie concerning tpgs are: 1. Do I need to have my coins slabbed before I can sell them? (seems the tpg propaganda has been rather effective in creating this mindset), and 2. Which tpg will bring the best selling price? Heaven forbid someone be concerned over the accuracy of the service being provided.

Registry sets (which often seem to be wallet competitions) have enabled some sellers to get thousands of dollars for common modern coinage that was produced in the millions and billions of pieces. Evidently some feel that to be reasonable while I feel it is nothing short of ludicrous. Is a first strike (LOL) MS-69 coin worth more than the same coin w/o the first strike designation? Can you say selling tool?

After becoming disenchanted with collecting regular coinage to the point of abandonment, my interests were redirected to various areas of exonumia. Ahhhh, a virtual paradise - most problems associated with regular coinage did not exist here. There was extremely little counterfeiting, especially with Civil War tokens, which had become my prime interest. Cleanings meant little to nothing, and even holed, gouged, or other damaged tokens only took a minor hit as far as price was concerned (Fuld mentions price reductions will seldom exceed 15% unless damage is severe or many in number). Price differences between grades was modest, with most cwts only doubling in value going from a grade of Fine to Unc. The Sheldon scale was not used (and still is virtually not used other than that associated with slabs). I do not think there was much need nor desire for tpg services regarding exonumia. I believe the hobby knowledge of those collecting exonumia is higher on average than that of regular coinage collectors for several reasons, but basically because more effort is required to collect exonumia. There is no such thing as simple as buying a prelabeled (token) album and filling in the holes. I was disheartened just a few years back when tpgs first ventured into exonumia, as I saw them as having nothing positive to offer this area, but likely to spread their negative issues. Their appearance seemed unwelcome by most others as well, as many (over half) of the first groups of cwt slabs on ebay could not even attract an opening bid of $.01, even in MS. I would not bid either, just to send a message. Unfortunately that trend did not continue. I did a little research on cwt slabs on ebay a while back. About 60% of cwt slabs were of rarities R1 & R2, the most common tokens. Most final bids for cwt slabs were 5 to 10 times the catalog price, which was reasonably accurate for raw tokens.

The option of passing on a token because it is in a slab does not mean that another is or will soon be available. Currently there are 240 cwt auctions on ebay and over 12,000 cwt varieties. A needed token in a slab now means that an exhorbitant price will need to be paid, or likely that token may never be acquired if it is a scarce issue. As mentioned above, in very few exonumia cases are there any real benefits provided by a slab. Not only do I feel that their services mean essentially nothing (admittedly not the case with much regular coinage), the services they did provide were substandard.

When tpgs entered the exonumia arena, I would estimate that between 5 to 10% of their slabs inaccurately identified the token entombed within. They seemed to have great difficulty copying the merchant's name from his token to the tpg label. Storecards were identified as Patriotics and vice versa. I believe they use Fuld's books for identification, but have failed to use/have read the "corrections" section in the back of the store cards book which was added to rectify die photo errors. Every slab I have seen that had an id number involving one of the corrected die number is...what a surprise... incorrect. Even after years of usage, the tpgs have not yet figured how to correctly use the Fuld numbering system, as there is significance if a letter is upper or lower case, yet tpgs use all upper case.

I had acquired some cwt slabs, and I used to break them all out. I have now saved a few in slabs to demonstrate how poorly some are graded. I have debated with staunch slab supporters concerning this issue, and after viewing some of these (as well as ebay offerings current to our "discussion"), each has admitted they are doing a poor job with exonumia. I have emailed cwt slab pics to others who feel they are rather proficient graders, and in a given sampling of 4 or 5 tokens it is not unusual for their opinion to have been 20 to 40 points off from what is on at least one label, so it is not just me.

While there are still not all that many cwt slabs, since 70+% of cwts have populations of 20 or less (and many of those are unique or in the 2-4 or 5-10 ranges), even 1 slab can be a significant percentage for that particular id number.

So, in culmination, I feel the tpgs are ruining the exonumia portion of the hobby by offering nothing other than the opportunity to way overpay. I would liken it to if the Home Shopping Network or the Coin Vault were to acquire such a significant amount of some of the dates/mm of the series that you collect, that in effect, if you wanted to acquire one you would have to buy it from them at their price.

 

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cwtokenman:
My son is an engineering student and just came home with a t-shirt that reads the same!

"As an engineer, the glass is neither half full nor half empty - it is twice as big as it needs to be."

 

That's cool! Where did he find that? What field of engineering is he studying?

 

cwtokenman:
I'll ask him where he got it later today.
He is studying mechanical, just got his grades yesterday, he is in his junior year.
I'd tell ya his grades, but that would be bragging!
Happy Holiday to all.

 

cwtokenman,

That was an excellent post. Very informative and insightful. The entire hobby would be more fun if it was a little bit more innocent and less cut-throat and mercenary. I dislike the way holed and cleaned coins are treated by the hobby, and how the difference in the label on a slab from a "reputable" company from, say, MS64 to 65 can increase the price by a factor of 5 in some cases. The comparison of exonumia to regular circulation coinage demonstrates how the more "professional" the hobby becomes, the less sense it makes sometimes.

 

OK, the contest has ended and the winner is... Indianhead Thanks to everyone for providing interesting views on each side of the topic.

Take Care & Merry Christmas
Ben

 

Indianhead, please turn on your PM function so I can get your address. Your the winner of the contest.


Ben

 

Hey Bonedigger....I sent you my address by e-mail. Let me know that you've recieved it. Thanks for the contest, cant wait to get my prize. I think that was a very interesting subject to share our views on. Thanks again Bone.
Kevin

 

Im not sure how to edit my profile to turn on the PM function Bone. Just in case you dont recieve my email with my address just send me a message here at ksleab@comcast.net and I'll send it to you again. Thanks

Kevin

 

Click on "User CP" at the top of the page, then click on "Edit Profile" on the left side.

 

Thanks Satootoko.....I think I got it now :desk: .

 

Bonediger:
Thanks for the contest.
Interesting responses.

 

Thanks for hosting this contest bonedigger!

 

Hey Bonedigger, I got the Morgan in the mail today. I'll treasure this as much as my 16-d Merc..lol. Thanks again for a great contest.