Black Cabinet Half 1921

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Heavymetal, Jan 31, 2020.

  1. Heavymetal

    Heavymetal Well-Known Member

    23F63868-E691-4C56-AFF9-47AB6116E376.jpeg 9381D92E-CD76-406A-9B2D-AD06318EC054.jpeg This puppy came back in a body bag. Fooled a dealer who sold it to another dealer. He sent it to a TPG. Got his $ back from dealer #1 but didn’t give back the piece.
    Comments requested
     
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  3. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Are you saying its counterfeit?
     
  4. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Did it pass weight/dimension/magnet testing?
     
  5. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    One look told me that it is a counterfeit. The relief on the reverse is all wrong with the eagle’s body way too high off the surface of the coin. The design is also missing the deepest parts of the details which are most often lost when a less than great counterfeiter makes a second rate copy.

    The date, “1921” is also much stronger than the rest of the obverse. That tells me that the clandestine China (probably) mint has this design ready made and just added dates to it as needed.

    It’s sad, but not surprising that a couple of dealers would be fooled by this. Some years ago, one of the Coin World editors took a group of Chinese counterfeits out to the floor of the Winter FUN show to see if any of the dealers would buy them as genuine. Unfortunately she found a fair number of takers. Unfortunately some dealers don’t know their business as well as they should.
     
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  6. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    The weakness of the reverse lettering (especially United States of America) and the odd strength of the date, as you mention, were the two things that first jumped out at me.
     
  7. Islander80-83

    Islander80-83 Well-Known Member

    When it comes back in a body bag, I don't think they give an explanation.
     
  8. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    They usually do. However, it is usually vague: Cleaned, Repaired, Scratched, Hairlines, Counterfeit....etc. They don't explain why they ruled it so, but they will usually tell you what the main problem was.
     
    Islander80-83 likes this.
  9. Islander80-83

    Islander80-83 Well-Known Member

    Thanks physics!
     
  10. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    Very counterfeit. I can see casting bubbles on it. Probably real silver though
     
    Islander80-83 likes this.
  11. Islander80-83

    Islander80-83 Well-Known Member

  12. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I would've written off the divots as corrosion (a good excuse for a harsh cleaning).

    The things that bugged me most on first glance were the date, the exaggerated relief, and the funky rim (fat, with finning?) from 2 to 6 on the obverse.

    If it were cast, I'd expect the edge to be terrible, and I'd expect it to fool not even one dealer.
     
  13. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    My gut said it isn’t Chinese. I believe it to be a cast made from mould created using a genuine coin. And the mould was probably “enhanced” to make the cast appear sharper.


    Few take the time to look at the edge anymore...
     
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