Bidiots getting smart?

Buyer since 2009 after ebay was sold to pay pal has become a seller nightmare !
If charge a shipping fee their one extra feedback door that Only ebay can read.buyers feedback door can give 5 stars on all 4 but the shipping fee door u can not see they can put a 3 after you get 4-5 ebay can withhold you money till feedback is done.if buyer didn't do feedback ebay can hold money for up to 120 days.
Read the seller rules.it was added 1/01/2010.if you were seller before that date 99% were not told of the new rules .

 

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If he wins, then no big deal I just wont sell anymore on ebay. Like i said, I do not rely on ebay for anything but to buy and occasionally sell coins. I am fine just being a buyer if they start playing games like that. It hurts their bottom dollar more than mine in the end. I would personally just find a dealer out there who is reasonable and sell to him, even at a loss to what I can sell on ebay for. If i can sell a coin on ebay for $100 and net $85, i would have no problem selling to Joe Dealer for $70, $75, or $80 just to avoid the hassle from fleabay.


So why would i lose the dispute if it escalates? The buyer is using the excuse of the description not being right, when it clearly is 100% accurate and in more ways than one. I understand that ebay can just side with him on their whim (and likely to do so) but why do you say that I will lose the dispute? I may lose, but to say I will is awfully confident in their procedures. Im also not saying you are wrong, just curious what you are basing that diagnosis off of? Too many past experiences dealing with the knuckle heads overseeing these issues?

Either way I am standing by what is right, no one put a gun to that mans head and made him bid on my coins, he did that all by himself, so he should be held responsible for his actions. If ebay doesnt see it that way, and they continue to side with buyers against me (assuming I continue with ebay, i wont let 1 incident discourage me for now), i will just leave and post these minor online sales elsewhere.

 

http://pages.ebay.com/services/buyandsell/biddermanagement.html

 

Sure -- I can expect you NOT to add "90%" in the title if it's a MIXED lot of 90% and 40%. Here are non-misleading titles that would have worked:

Silver Kennedy Half Dollars Junk Silver

Silver Kennedy Half Dollars 90% and 40%

Mixed Silver Kennedy Half Dollars Junk Silver

Instead, you chose to use a misleading title. Yes, your description was accurate, and no, I don't think the buyer is being very reasonable -- but by using a misleading title, you're inviting trouble.

I stopped selling on eBay for other reasons (related to outright buyer fraud and abuse of Buyer Protection). But if I were selling on a regular basis, and if I were in your shoes, I would have apologized and eaten the return (and hoped to avoid the neg). I'm not sure who will win the eBay dispute in this case, but by earning a negative feedback, you've lost regardless.

 

I agree. Not picking on you Trey, but I would also say your title could be misleading. I know you didn't mean it this way, but its a trick some sellers use. They make a title that leads people to believe one thing, but down below in the description change the meaning. Then if a buyer missed that part, they simply say, "it was in the fine print, its your fault you didn't read it". You know what I mean?

Don't stop selling on Ebay if you don't want to, just make sure your title is saying exactly what your description says. That's all. If I am searching for 90% kennedies, I am not looking for a mixed lot of 90% and 40%ers, I want 90%.

 

No question - you will lose and you should lose. But since you are fine with that, I guess all is well.

 

medoraman said it much better than I did. I certainly didn't mean to accuse you of being intentionally deceptive, but when I come across listings like this (title says one thing, description says another), it tends to make me suspicious of the seller.

Unless, of course, the title says 40% and the picture and description clearly indicate 90%. In those cases, I shoot for the bargain. :devil:

 

Sure. If you don't really care it is easy to make a stand against a buyer and stick them with the coins that they don't want after seeing them in hand.
But if you were going to be serious about it, then it might be a little different.

 

It is not so easy when your item description does not accurately describe what you are selling, particularly when if what you were selling did match the description they would be worth more than what you actually were selling. As for them siding with him "on a whim", your description is misleading. It's not a whim; it's their rules.

 

I didnt really choose to use a misleading title. If you look at the description i was posting using my phone and I am rather new at this. Ive sold maybe 10 items on ebay over the last 3-5 years, and am mostly a buyer. I agree that it could be misconstrued as a misleading title, but there is a very good reason why you have a description box as well. Its precisely so that ALL of the details can be laid out for the buyer, the things you missed and werent able to include in the title itself.

Im not arguing that my title couldve used some work. I actually made 2 similar lots both containing the same quantity of coins and both mixed with 40% and 90%. Here were the 2 titles:

[h=1]Silver Kennedy Half Dollars 90% Junk Silver[/h]

[h=1]Silver Kennedy Half Dollars 90% 40% Junk Silver[/h]




[h=1][/h]
So obviously somewhere within just a few minutes of posting both of those very similar listings I did one of two things. I either wrote the first description and thought I could improve upon it on the second lot by tweaking the title for more exposure and adding 40%, or when I was typing the title only mentioning 90%, i may have forgot to add the 40%. I cant remember the sequence of events, but I can tell you that there was no ill intent behind it either way. I am also firmly standing behind my philosophy that as a buyer its THEIR responsibility to check ALL the details of the auction, and yes that even means reading the fine print that says they may have switched your coins, selling you clad bars for silver bars, or whatever dubious sellers do these days. I know ive been burnt and didnt read all of the auctions sometimes, still do it occasionally (glutton for punishment), maybe missed a small key detail, but ive always been honorable and paid for the lesson that i just learned.

I dont know, we shall see what happens, its not gonna make me or break me though

 

It's a good thing you don't really care too much about selling on ebay.

 

I don't think anyone here really thinks you did it intentionally. But you did do it and it is misleading. The question of whether or a buyer should or should not be responsible for buying something in a case such as this is debatable. One could point to either party being at fault. However, the venue on which you chose to sell the items ends this debate up front by siding with the buyers. End of story, no whims, nothing.

 

I'm actually not sure whose side eBay will take on this one. If the buyer says "not as described", the seller can point to an unambiguously accurate description. The fault (which I do believe was unintentional) is more in the realm of "Listing practices - search and browse manipulation" (misleading title), which is grounds for reporting an auction. It's possible that eBay might say "the listing violated our policies" and make the auction go away entirely, leaving neither party any opportunity to leave feedback. I kind of doubt that that's what will happen, though.

 

Are you saying that the description in the title does not count as the description for an SNAD?

 

So everyone should buy items off of ebay by just going off of the title?!? Whats the purpose of the description box then? My description was accurate. First sentence says this is a mixed lot of both 40% and 90%. Second sentence says look at the pictures for actual coins to be received. I didnt hide anything or make anything misleading intentionally. Yes there was room for improvement, but seriously 2 out of the 3 key factors are in my favor (really 4 factors if you include my return policy, which is even more reason to double check what you are buying if there is a clearly stated NO returns). There was a title, a description, and photos. The photos showed what would be received, #1; and #2, my description CLEARLY states BOTH 40% and 90%.

Now your point about being unhappy with the coins in hand is in my opinion a little off for this particular case. These coins were listed and pretty certainly bought as bullion junk silver. Now I would warrant a return if it was an 1853 quarter that the pictures didnt really show well, or the buyer just wasnt really happy with, but thats a different scenario entirely from someone not paying attention to an auction and overbidding based on being in a hurry, that desire to 'win', or just being plain ignorant and not reading the entire listing when the first 5 words tell you what you are buying and if the reading skills werent up to par, there were even pictures to double check on.'


So all of you that are siding with the buyer on this are saying that it is perfectly OK to make bids, win, and pay for an item SOLELY based off of the TITLE without the buyer at least doing some minimal amount of work that is LAID out before them by checking all the rest of the auction and its details?

Let me ask you this, how many of you make purchases on ebay SOLELY off of the title and dont open the auction window to make the purchase? None of you, because thats impossible, every single item sold on ebay has to be opened and the buyer typed his price right next to the pictures, there really is not much of an excuse on his part.





I apologize if I am coming off snide in this thread. Im just not going to be walked all over when it comes to ebay. It may work out for me and it may not. Who knows. I will try my best to do whats right, and stand by my decisions. I made my decision regarding this matter and I am trying to learn a few things. Like I said, this ebay selling as a 'serious hobby enhancer' is new to me, and ive never sold coins on ebay until recently, most of my other items have been bottles or books. So I am open to hearing the other side and mending my methods in the future. At the same time though, im not going to be harangued into conforming with what every one else believes is right whether it be you guys or ebay, I will stick my ground on what i feel is the right thing because thats what matters to me. If I can garner information from you guys and learn and improve, well thats what I am partly here for and I openly welcome the criticism.

 

The problem is that sellers could in theory take advantage of the system by purposely putting false descriptions in the title and then relying on the item description to be like "Hey he should have perused the fine print!"

Do you think it would be fair if someone put up in the description "Genuine Superman #1 Comic from 1963" or whatever (I know nothing about comics) and then in a 3 paragraph long description there was a word in parentheses that said "Replica"?

Again no one is saying that is what you did. It is an awkward situation and it comes about as both the seller and buyer are at fault. If you even view the title of the auction as separate from your normal description, then you have two conflicting descriptions. Is this fair? On the other hand, is there a point that the buyer should be as careful as possible? Sure.

No one is saying you are being snide or anything else. My point though is that you should understand that there are two perspectives to what happened here. And it so happens that the venue you sold them on generally sides with the side you are not on. So when/if you lose, it is not "just on a whim" or you were "walked all over."

 

If it were me I would admit that I made a mistake and accept a return. I would do that because I believe it is the right thing to do and because it is the best thing for my business. If you think that I am letting someone walk all over me, so be it. I have no interest in teaching the buyer a lesson about reading descriptions and checking the fine print. And I have absolutely no interest in profiting from someone's mistake.

 

I'm saying that the description counts as the description -- but I'm saying it with a low degree of confidence, because the photo certainly also counts, and I suppose the title should as well.

However, one could argue that the title was not entirely misleading, just incomplete. I frequently see auctions that have titles like "ESTATE LOT 50 COINS SILVER", and show a lot with a few silver coins and a bunch of cents. I don't like the practice, but I don't think it rises to the level of search manipulation -- there's silver in there.

So, again, I'm not sure the OP's auction would meet eBay's critera for "significantly not as described", based on the accurate photo and description. But posting auctions like this, with titles like this, invites trouble. All IMHO, of course.

 

I will be shocked if he does not lose if this comes to a dispute, largely because of what I wrote before. We all know they are buyer-friendly and enforcing auctions with undisputedly false auction titles would allow for way too much abuse.

 

How is my title or description Significantly Not as Described? They did receive at least 2 - 90% silver coins, not that this is what I was implying by my title how it was. But I am concerned that you are saying its significantly not as described when the only possible misleading descriptor is the term 90% and it has no other words with it to indicate the whole lot, partial lot, etc. So where is the GROSS misrepresentation? They received 90% coins, I still believe it was on them to check how many and thats what my description did. Tell them exactly how many and which ones.

So you see thats what I am saying, they made an ASSUMPTION, and we all know what that spells. It IS their responsibility to confirm all aspects of what they are buying. What stopped the buyer from asking for more details, or better pictures? Or even contacting me directly before opening a dispute, again alluding to the fact that they didnt read my description at all.

Im also curious as to how you are supposed to list items by its title. I use key buzzwords that relate to my item/items to help people find them through searches. I dont usually sit there and figure out my description in my title block. I go something like

1765 P Blankety Quarter PCGS PF-99 Watermelon Tone Silver

or heres an actual title listing i just used:

Silver Fractional Rounds 1/2 1/4 1/10 Ounce Incuse Indian Golden State Mint

They are just a few key words to give an IDEA of whats being sold and to find it through searches. The title shouldnt be something that lays down all the details, and thats my point. The details, when and where it counts were all there in the correct spot.