Bidding When Is The Best Time

I you strongly believe the seller is crooked and have evidence and Ebay agrees with you, I say nail him and help get him banned from selling. At the very least it will add another black mark to the paper trail he probably has.

 

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The seller doesn't have to be involved in a shill bid. But he usually is.

All that is required for a bidder to be a shill is the refusal to honor the bid without cause. A shill is used to discover the max bid. The whole purpose of increments is to protect the buyers from going too far over market represented by the next highest real bidder.

I find it reprehensible.

In this case, I have two of the variety already. But this would be a nice addition. But I won't reward unethical activity.

 

I am now more suspicious since I haven't heard back from the seller (who I've done business with repeatedly in the past) and the shill bidder had never won a bid and only bid on this seller's items (about ten of them.)

I'd like to think it was a new bidder mistake, but I like to think the best of people and not assume the worst, at least not without giving them a chance to make it right.

 

Yes he does. You can't blame a seller for someone being a jerk when eBay allows bidders to cancel bids and back out of bids as much as they want.

That's not how "shill" bidding is defined at all and punishing a seller for random bidder activity is just absurd.

So it's unethical on the sellers part because some random person did random bidding or changed his mind on the auction?

Give me a break, that's just an insane standard to hold a seller too

 

How is that any different than auction houses bidding on their own items, which they almost all reserve the right to do

 

Shill bidding is strictly forbidden by Ebay's rules, that's why it's different. And if you don't like the rules, don't play the game.

 

I couldn't care less if people shill, I'd never sell anything with a low starting price there and a shill can't take me over my max bid anyway. I don't see it as any different than the auction houses but yes they are more upfront about it.

My point kind of is that everyone always cries shill immediately on ebay, it's usually not. There are trolls that just run up bids and cancel them or don't pay at the end, I've had that happen to me several times this year and it makes the seller look bad but was of no fault of their own.

It's to much aggravation trying to police the internet. Just bid what you're comfortable with on any site and if you win be happy and enjoy the prize

 

The difference is that using a shill, whether a co conspirator or not, creates price discovery of the max bid which is not a part of this type of auction. It's like saying it's OK to use a whiffle ball in a baseball game. You set the rules before the game and follow them whether you agree with them or not.

But thanks for the feedback. Apparently not everyone plays by the same rules.

 

So you should blame someone that had nothing to do with it? That's what your comments are reading as. If you weren't in on the scheme or asking someone to do it that is absolutely insane to say it doesn't matter if they knew a bidder was playing games or not.

So you're saying to blame the seller because of bidder behavior from some random bidder that eBay doesn't give sellers the ability to stop ahead of time or hold accountable for retracted bids or not paying, because it doesn't matter if the seller knew or not......wow

 

I'm more than willing to pay the next increment over the next highest legitimate bid according to the rules of the auction. But the seller is using the shill to discover my max bid, whether he was a part of it or not. THAT"S the unethical part.

I find you position difficult to understand. If I wanted to bid according to other rules, I would bid differently. The old fashioned bidding was like that.

But I take advantage of the incremental automatic bidding to keep my inflated max bid near market. That's the way it's set up. Those are the rules. That's why price discovery of individual bidders by shills is against eBay policy.

In this case, the next highest bid was under $100 while my max bid was over $200. If I were bidding against a legitimate bidder, then I'm OK with it. But I don't bid against myself, ever!

 

No, if he was not a part of it and had no knowledge of it he is not using anything. The fact you won't distinguish between those circumstances is just absurd

 

I generally bid last second. I suppose it don't matter but some bidders are weirdos and think it's like a race.
One issue with early bid is you may be spotted.
Example: My max bid would be $300. However, I spot (a****)1427 and see his bid. I know exactly who it is. Now my max bid is going to be $800, because I know he'd likely bid a max of $600.

 

I have set the price on several of his items (seond highest bid) that I didn't win. That has now ended and he now has one less buyer driving up his prices. Good luck to the other collectors I was competing against. I hope you get lots of bargains.

I fail to understand how some people can't understand that information discovered from the introduction of a shill bidder which is used by the owner to inflate a price is just as bad as being the shill bidder or being co-conspirators.

An honest dealer would remove the effects of the shill and honor the auction results by the legitimate bidders.

But I suppose we have too many Al Capones in this world. It's OK to rob a bank because that's where the money is and that's all that matters.

 

I've been trying to follow along with this shill argument. There are some sellers on Ebay that are known to use shills. 100 percent bid activity 100's of bids with the same seller certainly raise red flags.

When I list which is not that often, I set it and forget it until it's done. I rarely look at the bid history. I have on a few occasions and have had bidders place 20 bids until they are on top. Does that look funny? To some it can. The motive, maybe to scare other bidders off. I've also observed people bid while on cell phones and they have these bid boxes 12 -14-16-18 etc and I think some people get caught up like it's a video game gambling platform, click click click.

I think Ebay carries direct fault for not enforcing NPBs. I've had that happen where some nut bids it up then doesn't pay, more noticeably a recent trend. I left the last buyer that pulled that stunt the following feedback: Bid $480, NO PAYMENT, NO COMMUNICATION, NO RESPONSE, BLOCKED!!!!!

Now anythings possible as a practical matter I mean the guy could have died etc.

Regardless, I think Marshall is suggesting that all sellers should closely monitor bid activity and on the guess the bidders placing too many bids that the seller is obligated to cancel all their bids and block them. Maybe that's not what he's saying but with this obligation I think it's a bit much.

I have also had the occasion to look into bid history when there's a bid retraction. I have observed some bidders have hundreds of retractions within the past few months. I block them. Of note, the last time that happened, Ebay is supposed to give the seller the reason why and it's normally something stupid like entered wrong amount. The last one I had there was NO reason given whatsoever.

 

I believe you're right. For at least the last 20 years, eBay has used "proxy bidding" -- you enter your max, and eBay calculates the minimum incremental bid for you, repeating the process until you hit your max. But the canned bid amounts on the app actively discourage "set and forget"; it's easier to pick one of the suggested values than to think about it and type in your actual max.

I'll bet that does explain a lot of the "ten bids in a row from one bidder" behavior that we see.

Of course, there are still shills, though.

Yup, eBay's decision to allow only positive feedback on buyers was pure genius, wasn't it? Having said that, though, leaving derogatory positive feedback does violate eBay's Terms of Use, and the buyer could easily get it removed if they wanted. (I don't know if that would count as a strike against your account.)

 

All I ask is that the seller honor the incremental bid of all legitimate bidders without raising the price to the max bid which would not have been known without a shill.

I often use the max bids when I'm not available at the time of the auction. I don't mind competing against legitimate bidders, but a shill is essentially providing inside information and the owner is making full use of it.

This is why I followed though with reporting the shill bidding and they are taking the appropriate action.

In my case, I was the high bidder among the legitimate bidders. But using the shill made my max bid apparent and the owner wanted my max bid, not my incremental bid over the next highest legitimate bid. That to me is unethical as well as a violation of eBay policy.

Anyway, I will not be dealing with him again.

 

I've done some bidding, fairly successfully. Probably it's best to "keep your cards close to your chest", and not be too transparent to other bidders. Don't bid in desperation, but keep cool, and act as if your resources are unlimited (maybe they are !) !

 

I usually place my max bid at the last moment to prevent creeping increments from raising the bidding just to find out my max bid. But auctions which end during church services (a common end point for Large Cents) requires me to make an earlier bid. But because I can't raise my bid, a shill or bidder gets stuck paying the absurd price I sometimes post just to make sure I get the coin.

I usually set a max bid at the point I wouldn't mind losing the bid, But that;s why I rely on the incremental system to keep me from overpaying the market just because I'm willing to go over.

 

You sure do. You did that on a Barber you bought from me off Ebay!