Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Coin Chat
>
Beware of rainbow toning
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Lehigh96, post: 2123398, member: 15309"]Jim</p><p><br /></p><p>I think you make some excellent points in these two posts. First is that we should expect toning progressions in certain storage methods such as albums or canvas bags but that some storage methods will not result in a progression and will instead yield a more monochromatic toning pattern. You also bring up that it is effective only a certain percentage of the time. That is extremely important IMO. All of the things that we use to determine the originality of toning are just indicators. A coin can have a proper toning progression and still be AT. Some coins show indicators of both AT and NT. In the end, we look at all the indicators and decide if the toning is market acceptable or not.</p><p><br /></p><p>IMO, proper elevation chromatics is one of the strongest indicators of NT. While it would seem implausible that elevation would matter with respect to air transfer toning, bag toned Morgans show conclusively that sharp elevation changes such as those from fields to lettering, fields to devices, or even sharp changes within the devices have an effect on the progressive nature of the toning thickness. More specifically, the toning progression will lag in recessed areas of devices and will often be more advanced on the surface of the lettering. Let's examine the Sunnywood Morgan example shown earlier in this thread.</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="https://www.cointalk.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi449.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq216%2FSunnywoodCoin%2F1879SP67Annotated.jpg&hash=4a7d8cca85f73dc17e2b88ddaca840a5" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><img src="https://www.cointalk.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi449.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq216%2FSunnywoodCoin%2FColorChart.jpg&hash=b6cde691bb143ba279f0528595caa537" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>We can see from the color classification that the progression moves from 10 o'clock to 4 o'clock. Throughout most of the first two cycles, there is very little impact on the toning by the elevation. But once you get to the magenta color, the lag in the progression becomes very obvious. The higher relief turns to the blue-green (Q) color while the recessed devices lag behind with the magenta-blue (N) color. The best example of this can be seen in the "Y" in LIBERTY, but is also noticeable in the hair, bonnet, and stars. As we follow the word LIBERTY, we see this lag continue with the devices toned in the 3rd cycle magenta (T) and the lettering emerald green (R).</p><p><br /></p><p>When evaluating toning on a coin, it is important to make sure that the indicators work with each other. The elevation chromatics should make sense in respect to the toning progression on the coin in the same way that toning correspondence from the obverse to reverse should make sense. </p><p><br /></p><p>Now if we look at the AT coin Morgan that was posted in this thread, we see a definite lack of elevation chromatics.</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/at-1879-s-jpg.401655/" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>The colors are not interrupted by elevation changes. In my experience, obvious AT coins almost always show this disregard for elevation change. And it is my theory that this feature is the most difficult for coin doctors to replicate. In order to speed up the toning process, one must increase the H2S concentration, force gas flow, or increase temperature or humidity. I believe that changing these factors causes a more rapid toning of the recessed areas than they would achieve without accelerating the toning. It is my personal theory and not factual, but what is clear is that something is keeping the coin doctors from consistently fooling the TPGs.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Lehigh96, post: 2123398, member: 15309"]Jim I think you make some excellent points in these two posts. First is that we should expect toning progressions in certain storage methods such as albums or canvas bags but that some storage methods will not result in a progression and will instead yield a more monochromatic toning pattern. You also bring up that it is effective only a certain percentage of the time. That is extremely important IMO. All of the things that we use to determine the originality of toning are just indicators. A coin can have a proper toning progression and still be AT. Some coins show indicators of both AT and NT. In the end, we look at all the indicators and decide if the toning is market acceptable or not. IMO, proper elevation chromatics is one of the strongest indicators of NT. While it would seem implausible that elevation would matter with respect to air transfer toning, bag toned Morgans show conclusively that sharp elevation changes such as those from fields to lettering, fields to devices, or even sharp changes within the devices have an effect on the progressive nature of the toning thickness. More specifically, the toning progression will lag in recessed areas of devices and will often be more advanced on the surface of the lettering. Let's examine the Sunnywood Morgan example shown earlier in this thread. [IMG]https://www.cointalk.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi449.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq216%2FSunnywoodCoin%2F1879SP67Annotated.jpg&hash=4a7d8cca85f73dc17e2b88ddaca840a5[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.cointalk.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi449.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq216%2FSunnywoodCoin%2FColorChart.jpg&hash=b6cde691bb143ba279f0528595caa537[/IMG] We can see from the color classification that the progression moves from 10 o'clock to 4 o'clock. Throughout most of the first two cycles, there is very little impact on the toning by the elevation. But once you get to the magenta color, the lag in the progression becomes very obvious. The higher relief turns to the blue-green (Q) color while the recessed devices lag behind with the magenta-blue (N) color. The best example of this can be seen in the "Y" in LIBERTY, but is also noticeable in the hair, bonnet, and stars. As we follow the word LIBERTY, we see this lag continue with the devices toned in the 3rd cycle magenta (T) and the lettering emerald green (R). When evaluating toning on a coin, it is important to make sure that the indicators work with each other. The elevation chromatics should make sense in respect to the toning progression on the coin in the same way that toning correspondence from the obverse to reverse should make sense. Now if we look at the AT coin Morgan that was posted in this thread, we see a definite lack of elevation chromatics. [img]https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/at-1879-s-jpg.401655/[/img] The colors are not interrupted by elevation changes. In my experience, obvious AT coins almost always show this disregard for elevation change. And it is my theory that this feature is the most difficult for coin doctors to replicate. In order to speed up the toning process, one must increase the H2S concentration, force gas flow, or increase temperature or humidity. I believe that changing these factors causes a more rapid toning of the recessed areas than they would achieve without accelerating the toning. It is my personal theory and not factual, but what is clear is that something is keeping the coin doctors from consistently fooling the TPGs.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Coin Chat
>
Beware of rainbow toning
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...