Beware of rainbow toning

Or Tappa Kega Beer

 

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Reason I asked is I was in a math club called that in high school and i don't know how to "math" so much.

 

This is my BC that I mentioned. It isn't a rainbow toner. It may not be considered monster toning. But it's certainly worth more than a standard MS-63 1886.
I've seen a couple others from this specific hoard that were somewhat similar. Only a couple and they sold for a lot more than what I got this one for. That was a couple years ago. If somebody wanted one like this, I think you'll have a real challenge locating one. The pictures don't do it any justice. Have never seen any at a show that remotely approached this level of color. It would have been a memorable event if I had.

 

Had to do some digging to find the photos. Here's the mint green one. It's awesome. AT?? Idk. How many has anybody ever seen that look like this? NGC felt it was good. Again, reverse not affected at all.



Here's one in an original GSA holder graded MS-64 by NGC. Why did this one tone in gold? Does anyone think this is common? See these all the time?

 

@Vess1

All of the pieces you have posted look original to me, and I don't think that the toning animus in this thread is targeted at coins like those. It is targeted at coins like these bag toned silver dollars:

1885-O PCGS MS64


1883-O PCGS MS64


1886 PCGS MS64 Battle Creek, Ex NGC MS64*


1923 NGC MS63* CAC Patriot Collection


1922 NGC MS64 Binion

 

That was at Komonawanna Lei University in Hawaii!

 

Nice Battle Creek! This is probably one of my favorite hoards of all time.

 

I know they're not rainbow toned and that is what the thread is primarily about. But we're also discussing rarity of toned coins and the abilities (or lack there of) of rapid methods of AT to produce what is being discussed.

 

Mu Alpha Theta is first eligible to High School students, and depending on certain states and school programs, occasionally 7th and 8th graders in gifted or advanced programs, all the way up through college level students. You must take a mathematics test to qualify, attend math programs, compete, etc. It is actually taken extremely serious, the 16 or so members at my school were the top 16 or so students in my class of 900+. I went to a very competitive academic as well as sports oriented public school. We qualified for and won Nationals in my junior year. I personally placed 2nd in Integration, behind my oldest and best friend, and smartest person I have ever met. He also set a record for the highest score ever in MAT history, so I don't feel too bad about losing that time. He also created a new "award" as one portion of the test had never been completed before. He completed it. Perfect score. With 12 minutes and change to spare. So now, to set a new record, one must get a perfect score...IN LESS TIME.

It was definitely the nerd club. But we were good at it.

 

On a side note, if two people approached you and one said they were in MENSA, and the other said MAT; I would put my money on the MAT person as being the smarter of the two.

 

I'm certainly not saying that pieces like the one you are showing aren't unique or desirable or deserving of a premium.

Sure very few coins exist that exhibit that particular pattern of toning. Just as very few are gonna be toned mostly red, or mostly blue, etc. You have now zoomed in so close that i think you are missing just how common superb eye appealing toning really is. Sure it may not fit YOUR strict description of rainbow toning, but it's desirable and premium deserving over a common blast white counterpart.

Look at the coins Vess is using as his 'examples' of rainbow toning. Tomorrow I will take photos, closeup for detail, of similar coins in those same catalogs.

Rainbow toning is like religion and politics, too many varying opinions, and no concrete anything. Your definition of rainbow toning certainly is nowhere even close to mine (although my definition would encompass most of your coins), and apparently this is consistent since coin collecting is all about what we individually desire and find appealing.

 

If you have 8 apples in one hand and 9 oranges in the other, what do you have?

-Very big hands.

 

@Coinchemistry 2012 , while i love the neon green color of your 1886 Battle Creek Morgan, can it be considered rainbow toning or is it a monster toned coin? I realize the neon green toning is quite rare as well, but there's not a lot of color progression.

My avatar is a beautifully toned 1882 S MS67 Morgan. I paid a premium for it, but I don't think it can be considered a rainbow toned coin. In fact, of all my toned coins, I don't know if I can consider any of them rainbow toned. Maybe this one:


To me it shows more of an album tone, than a burlap bag toning.

I don't have a lot of experience in toned coins, but in general, I agree with @Lehigh96 and @Coinchemistry 2012 that there are not a lot of true rainbow toned coins available AND they are not easy to replicate with chemical science. To be clear, I have some experience, but by no means do I consider myself an expert. I read all these toning threads with the idea that I can learn something.

I believe there are many, many beautifully toned coins available at prices points that collectors of almost all means can enjoy, but to say they're rainbow toned is a stretch at best. What percentage of the market are rainbow toned coins, I believe it's <1%. Now, what percentage of the total coin market do these beautifully toned coins represent? I'd say <5-10%. If we're talking about toning in general, than that percentage goes up considerably.

After following this thread from the beginning, I think it's finally getting somewhere: define RAINBOW toning! After that, the beauty of toning, whether it's highly colorful or not becomes subjective.

 

I'm impressed. Got two 10s for a 5?

 

Just an observation. This thread started out with its feet on the ground and it's somewhere over the rainbow right now.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why Kellogg's never sent me one of those Battle Creek coins when I sent in my cereal box tops in the 1960's. For those too young to get that reference, ask your parents.

 

Both are gorgeous!

 

The Battle Creek coins were discovered and slabbed in 2005. The coins come from a hoard of 10 bags that were mint sewn and were part of an estate. The estate did not know of the toned coins because the bags were still sealed. A dealer submitted all 10 bags to NGC. Most were not toned or predominantly white, but the hoard did result in some exquisite toners when toning occurred.

 

Is there a theory on what the key difference in environment was on the Battle Creek vs. the Treasury/GSA hoards? More moisture? Other sulfur sources besides the bags?

 

There were toned coins in the GSA sales, but these were looked upon dis favorably and were not put (usually) in the uncirculated black GSAS holders. A few escaped. I can't say there necessarily were differences in the number of toners between the GSA and Battle Creek hoards. Out of 10,000 Battle Creek coins less than 1400 starred, and some of these were PL or semi PL and not toned. And the number of monsters is much, much less but there is no way to quantify those specifically.

I know one of the Battle Creek bags was supposedly in a Chicago bank vault in the 1920s. I can't say much regarding moisture in those or provide any other insight. The only thing I can say about treasury vaults is that they stopped using coal heating and began using natural gas in 1901, and there were moisture problems prior to the beginning of the 20 th century during the period Morgans (when most of the dates that are most common with rainbow toning) were produced. All of this is per Roger Burdette (except the Battle Creek info).