Beware of rainbow toning

Maybe buy a house next to a volcano.

 

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I find it hard to believe that anybody would purposely tone coins for their own personal gain. Whats next, people salting rolls of common Lincoln cents with key date coins? This is the hobby of kings after all.

 

You mean players with "losing systems" of course. Because if they employ a winning system, like counting cards, the casino just throws them out. Don Johnson employed a system that yielded a $15 million profit in a little over a year from the Atlantic City casinos. That includes $6 million from Tropicana. I still remember the day I came to work, looked at the daily report, and saw a $2.5 million dollar loss on the table game column. And Johnson didn't count cards!

 

But you assume that all toning is attractive. It is not.

 

Intent doesn't factor into it at all. Really, it's simple. The only thing that differentiates NT from AT is the feeling of authenticity you get when you look at it.

That feeling of authenticity comes from seeing things that you are comfortable seeing on a toned coin, i.e. elevation toning, pullaway, correct chromatic transitions, textures, natural surfaces, etc.. That is all there is to it.

 

I agree with you, but I think a lot of the intent comments are stemming from the PNG attempt to fashion a definition for artificial toning. They included intent over objections.

 

The 60's proofs are different, they will tend to show monochromatic blue and lavender naturally.

 

The coin was from the David Hall Collection -- and the pre-sale auction estimates were $2500-$2750. Two people apparently really wanted this coin...

 

I wonder how much, if any, was due to the pedigree. I don't particularly see it as adding, but YMMV.

 

That blue/violet color that blankets both sides of a coin is a dead giveaway for an artificially toned coin. If you have coins that have developed that type of toning naturally, then you are unlucky, because the TPGs do not consider that color scheme to be market acceptable for any series. If your coins are just blue without any hint of violet, they might be acceptable, though I don't ever recall seeing a blue business strike Jefferson in NGC or PCGS plastic. Do you have any photos of your coins?

 

I think this is a "perfect storm" situation. A monster toned coin, in a 1st generation PCGS slab, from the personal collection of the President of the company, sought after by two guys with deep pockets.

 

It is not quite the same, but here is a blue business strike (albeit from a very controversial hoard):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1943-D-NGC-...531?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2edf8868e3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1943-D-NGC-...534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2edf8868e6

 

I would say little if any. It take two to tango, so 2 people really liked the coin -- or at least the pictures of the coin. I agree with you that the monster Morgan market is really half a dozen people propping it up, but I am sure some others will come along eventually...

 

Yea but really it comes down to authenticity just like with art. You can't see intent when looking at the coin. Even something that looks obviously doctored could be produced without intent.

Say you have both a painting and its flawless copy, so good that it's indistinguishable from the real thing. One was painted with creative intent, the other with intent to duplicate. Looking at them, they cannot be distinguished. They are both original.

 

Blackjack can be beaten like that, that's why we'd kick them out. Come on over to the craps pit sometime and listen to the dealers when a player walks up makes a line bet and throws a green check to the stick and says, "$25 Yo!" "Yo!" Doesn't take much to spot that yo-yo. He's so hooked, got him speaking the language.

You play by the system, you die by the system.

 

It's not as if it was a coin in his personal collection that he had graded back in the day. The coin originally sold on Heritage in 2004 for $1380. Nonetheless, you are completely correct. It takes only 2 people with deep pockets to make the prices go to the "stupid" level.

 

Do you really call throwing a "quarter" on a Yo a system? Sounds like run of the mill gambling to me. IIRC, Doug has what he considers a winning strategy for craps.

 

You have me confused, is the coin pedigreed to David Hall or not?

I hope @Tim C sees this. He doesn't think that rainbow toned coins existed in 80's.

 

Didn't you know that this is one of the early counterfeit rattlers that caused PCGS to change holders, Paul?

 

YES, it from the David Hall Collection recently sold in the Legend Auction, but the pedigree is NOT on the rattler holder. I was just saying that, yes, it was recently in David Hall's collection, but he clearly purchased it sometime in 2004 or after when it last sold on Heritage.

Sure, it's some "purdy" toning, but $14K is just, well, stupid. To each his own.