Best "guide" for grading coins

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Dah, you think?

 

PCGS photograde.

 

Good morning! Gather around kiddies. First, all of you should have developed YOUR OWN PERSONAL grading standards before buying anything that is not in a major TPGS slab.

@GDJMSP has his own standards and uses an obsolete standard that at one time was based on how the ANA interpreted the grading standards in use at ANACS and less so by coin dealers THIRTY YEARS AGO.

This was before PCGS was started. PCGS and, shortly after, NGC were founded by COIN DEALERS because they did not like the way the first grading service at INSAB or the second grading service ANACS were grading coins. Both companies were too strict at the Uncirculated line and (for a long time) did not take a coin's value due to strike and eye appeal into consideration when grading. The dealers (wolves) were licking their chops at the prospect of controlling the market (sheep).

Now in fairness, change was needed . The coin business was a "tar pit" for the ignorant. The TPGS began to clean it up. They also made a market so coins could be sold sight unseen. At first PCGS and NGC were strict. As time passed and with market pressure (up/down) their standards changed, have continued to change, and will continue to change over the decades.

In an ideal world, ANA would have set the standard and all dealers/collectors would have followed it. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. As I wrote before, VERY FEW professionals EVER followed the ANA standards.

Now we can all complain, whine , try to convince new collectors to grade using the inadequate WORDS and OBSOLETE photos in a book or we can use all the items at our disposal (including the excellent introduction in the ANA Guide) to learn to grade.

Finally. I'm still waiting for one of the posters here to answer my question below.

Here is a description from the ANA Grading Guide (without the pictures ). What is the grade of the coin: "Liberty is clear but not bold. Hair is outlined with very little detail. Only a few stars show any detail.

The fact that my question has not been answered should prove the point: GIVE IT UP! The words are practically WORTHLESS!

 

The same thing goes for currency. I have seen it over and over again. Dealers buy as VG, get the notes certified, they come back VF!! And then they sell them for over double. Grading standards? They change according to "market" reality.

 

Let me guess that you dot your "I's" with little hearts.

 

I know I told you I would not use faces anymore. Perhaps if you read my post in the thread about lying, you will understand why I couldn't stop
Have I enclosed a note to you when we sent your coins back? I DO use hearts!

 

Nah, use the faces if you like.

 

I just bought a copy from Amazon, i was a little disappointed that the pics in the book were all black and white, and didn't really illustrate the points the author was making, did i get ripped off by a bootlegger?

 

We'll leave that to @physics-fan3.14 to answer, but it should be noted that B&W images are by far the best idea for teaching strict technical grading (color only gets in the way), and high-res images are *ridiculously* expensive to print. It'd take a full page per single image. As has already been mentioned, it's the written description that counts anyway. We're spoiled by the Internet, in this sense, and that's regrettable.

 

And for no one more so than the top 2 TPG's. I recently bought a coin/stamp combo for just above melt at my local coin club auction. 1964 (P) Kennedy half with the horizontal Kennedy commem stamp that came out when he was killed, both in a black cardboard holder in a snap case - nothing special about either one, right? Wrong. The half had obviously been in the cardboard holder that both had come in, for DECADES, judging from the toning. Look up NGC's 4337715-001. It came back MS65; I suggest STRICTLY because it was toned. "Gets in the way"? You bet!

I had it slabbed to be able to PROVE to somebody that color gets upgraded all by itself. The marks on this coin are OBVIOUS in hand. It's NOT an MS65, somebody at NGC simply got influenced by the color.

 

Wow. Big reeding hits on the cheek and behind the head, obvious even in those odious images. And the shield - big eye focus point - looks hit by buckshot. I'm not sure I could make that one look pretty even with axial lighting and a generous dollop of the Gimp.

 

For strict technical grading, yes. For something like this, not so much It's supposed to show the difference between Red, Red-Brown, and Brown copper.

 

Nothing will compare to years of looking at coins/experience but I like "Making the Grade" as a reference. Since the grading companies are consistently inconsistent things like Photograde should only be used if you have nothing else.
Gradeflation is great if you are that lucky one who is able to make that grade making it move another decimal place but that doesn't happen to the 99%.

I haven't been on here in a while, a lot of good information in this thread, thanks!

 

Yup, exactly. This, to me, PROVES FOREVERMORE that toning adds points to a coin's grade. No one will EVER convince me otherwise. I did submit this coin just to prove it. I consider it Q.E.D. I got REALLY tired of some here disputing that it does. WAKE UP!!!

Now, you tell me why people artificially tone stuff. It's obvious, I would hope, by now.

Here's the fun part - I have now put an utterly unremarkable 1965 Kennedy half in that same cardboard holder, and stuck it in the back recesses of my safe, just to see what happens over time.

 

OK guys, thankfully my BAN has been lifted: UPDATE

I am no longer ignorant concerning the ANA 7th Edition.

I just called an acquaintance to compliment him on the great job they did updating the ANA Grading Guide 7th Edition! I suggest you get one to go along with The Bowers book and keep them both handy.

I'll use the previous (and OUTDATED) editions of the ANA Grading Guides I have for wipes or a fire starter in an emergency.

 

@Insider, if YOU'RE getting banned here, it's more an indictment of "here" than it is of YOU. As if this site needed any more indictments of its moderators, which it doesn't. It's bizzarro-world, we all know it.

 

There are very few people who dispute that toning and great eye appeal will be rewarded by a higher grade by the TPGs. This is well known, admitted, and published by the TPGs themselves. Eye appeal is an important part of market grading, because market grading is valuing a coin - greater eye appeal means greater value means higher grade.

The debate comes from people who argue whether increased eye appeal *SHOULD* increase the grade. Many people think that it should not.

 

I am not sure why that was disputed. Toning is part of eye appeal which the TPGs themselves say is part of the grading evaluation

 

That "debate" is one I have missed out on. Do the folks who don't think toning should raise a grade also believe that it should not increase the coin's value/price, and desirability for some collectors too?

I have heard/read that the TPGS's using "commercial/market" standards claim to put a value on a coin using the grade they assign. We can argue that point based on observable auction prices for similar "certified" coins with the same grade.

Toning adds just another variable (such as "date grading") to a sometimes confusing situation.

I guess I am an old-timer. Grade the coin based on its condition of preservation to better achieve the consistency many wish *SHOULD* be the case - then let the buyer and seller determine the coin's value.