So after about 6 weeks of officially getting into collecting ancients I've accumulated links to many auction houses and have purchased from CNG, Davisson's, and Savoca. I have a bid in with Roma at the moment. Seems like the buyers fee is standard across all auctions but who is more expensive, has a higher premium, and who should be avoided? I'm sticking with English, German, and American houses at the moment as they seem pretty bullet proof and I can't spot a fake that easily yet. Apologies if this was posted before but I couldn't find anything recent.
Personally: - Read all Terms and Conditions of the Auction - I try to ensure I am comfortable with whom I am dealing. - Create a spreadsheet using the cost of the coin as the basis, and factor in all T&C costs, adding applicable taxes, applicable duties, applicable shipping / freight, currency exchange rates, payment costs, and other applicable real costs and factors. This is KEY for me. - The Spreadsheet will help drive your potential bids to a Fully Loaded Landed Cost. - You can "play" with your potential bids to determine what is your end price "elasticity". In other words, find out what would be the highest end-price would be if you made a certain bid. - Personally, I do not think in "Bids", I think in "Fully Loaded Landed Cost" decisions. - If your Fully Loaded Landed Cost is more expensive than similar coins Dealer costs that are on market, chose if you want to buy from a Dealer, Bid at Auction, or not pursue the coin. Simple. Doing the spreadsheet approach helps eliminate any "sticker" shock when you make a bid. I find that the folks that complain most about all the "extra" fees, etc. that are on their winning bids is because they were not doing their pricing homework BEFORE they bid. I find they are the ones who complain that Auctions should be regulated, or differing fee structures are "wrong" etc. Simple: KNOW THE T&C, understand Fully Loaded Landed Costs, and then you have "no complaints" to yak about on the Forum! If you do your homework UP FRONT, you eliminate all the griping about "too many fees" and the "buyer's remorse" about the invoice you pay. Know what your BID will be when it becomes an INVOICE Price. (All this assumes you have done your homework, UP FRONT, about the reputation of the Auction House, the target Coin, past info on a fair price for the coin, that you have no MOU issues, not a fake, etc. etc. etc.)
Buyer's fees vary across the auction houses. They rise periodically. It's best to check the T&C to be certain.
All the fees add up, in addition to the bidding price. I live in California, and I need to include the sales tax as well. The total invoice price is always a surprise for me... Sometimes it is better just to buy from dealers.
They are pretty much about even across the board. I've been trying more European AHs and they seem to float about 18-22%? Also, just because the AH checks them does not mean there will not be a chance of a coin being a fake. I've seen them have to take down a lot before because of that reason and there have been posts in ancients where other users have been able to spot them out.
In my (short) experience, the auction houses with lower fees tend to see higher bids, so it often works out. My advice is to just factor the auction fee into the price when you bid.
I'd love to visit a dealer some day or even attend a coin show once they're back up and running. Paying all this extra for premiums, taxes, and shipping really does add up.
Ah yea. V-coins and ma-shops I know are popular but damn, some of the prices are outrageous. I've seen Athenian owls with $2,000 price tags with no crest or fine condition at best. I guess you just have to weed out the crap and find a good deal.
Personally: - Read all Terms and Conditions of the Auction - I try to ensure I am comfortable with whom I am dealing. - Create a spreadsheet using the cost of the coin as the basis, and factor in all T&C costs, adding applicable taxes, applicable duties, applicable shipping / freight, currency exchange rates, payment costs, and other applicable real costs and factors. This is KEY for me. - The Spreadsheet will help drive your potential bids to a Fully Loaded Landed Cost. - You can "play" with your potential bids to determine what is your end price "elasticity". In other words, find out what would be the highest end-price would be if you made a certain bid. - Personally, I do not think in "Bids", I think in "Fully Loaded Landed Cost" decisions. - If your Fully Loaded Landed Cost is more expensive than similar coins Dealer costs that are on market, chose if you want to buy from a Dealer, Bid at Auction, or not pursue the coin. Simple. Doing the spreadsheet approach helps eliminate any "sticker" shock when you make a bid. I find that the folks that complain most about all the "extra" fees, etc. that are on their winning bids is because they were not doing their pricing homework BEFORE they bid. I find they are the ones who complain that Auctions should be regulated, or differing fee structures are "wrong" etc. Simple: KNOW THE T&C, understand Fully Loaded Landed Costs, and then you have "no complaints" to yak about on the Forum! If you do your homework UP FRONT, you eliminate all the griping about "too many fees" and the "buyer's remorse" about the invoice you pay. Know what your BID will be when it becomes an INVOICE Price. (All this assumes you have done your homework, UP FRONT, about the reputation of the Auction House, the target Coin, past info on a fair price for the coin, that you have no MOU issues, not a fake, etc. etc. etc.)
I'm happy you posted this as it's actually what I've been doing since the beginning. I factor in all the 'after sale' stuff into my bidding process as to eliminate any and all 'surprises' in the final invoice. I work damn hard for my money (work smarter, not harder I know...still getting there!) so I don't just jump into purchases based off emotions. Also to help with self control, I bought a nice case with 20 spaces. I plan on limiting my purchases to those 20 spaces for the next few years so I have to think long and hard about what I actually want instead of just buying willy nilly any coin that looks cool. Then again, I've only been at this for six weeks
Agreed. Always remember that this is a HOBBY not your Vocation... use all the right tools for you, so that you ENJOY your Hobby... the idea is to lift your mind away from the Everyday and have FUN! I try not to put artificial restrictions on my Hobby... However, smart guidelines help make the Hobby enjoyable by eliminating many of the "regrets". MY restrictions are: What is FUN? Great start! ENJOY!
In general this is true but it is always important to read the terms because although the premiums generally fall in the 18-22% range, some recent high profile auctions have had buyer's premiums at 26%. There is a lot of competition between auction houses for really good collections and sometimes the auction will offer to market and sell the collection with little or no consignment fee. The cost is then transferred to the buyer. Theoretically if everyone is paying attention, and considering the full price, the hammer prices are lower. It all works out in the end when you are careful and use the advice described by @Alegandron, but the auction houses will hope you didn't read the terms before bidding.
Thank you, @Fugio1 . In my mind, I ALWAYS try to think in the end cost - Fully Loaded Landed Cost... if that is fully understood, then all of the differing terms, factors, etc. DO NOT MATTER. Theoretically, you could have only a 5% Auction Fee having a Fully Loaded Landed Cost MORE expensive than a 75% Auction Fee! What matters is knowing the final cost structures when you make your Bids.
I don't know if Great Collections does ancients but it doesn't hurt to check. And they have the lowest buyer's fee that I know of -- 12½%. Worth a look.
The "all in slabs" part was no surprise. I knew that if they listed them they were going to be in slabs.
ma-shops are very reasonable if you take the time to search. Can't vouch for ancients but modern German coins (1700's to the present) are quite affordable.
