Beginner collector! Denarii

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by RedStallions, Apr 8, 2021.

  1. RedStallions

    RedStallions Member

    Thanks for the suggestion!
    Do you happen to have any recommended sellers?
     
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  3. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    It's actually one of my favorite coins, period! (I love the ancient Egyptian theme.)
     
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  4. Bradley Trotter

    Bradley Trotter Well-Known Member

    Anyway, I'm still relatively new to ancient coins myself. However, since you're already familiar with Incitatus Coins, I'm assuming you're already familiar with Vcoins as well. Regardless, I'd highly recommend Victor's Imperial Coins, which is run by a fellow member of Cointalk. He sells a wide variety of coins on his Vcoins store and runs weekly auctions on eBay.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  5. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Since you asked: I started with the Severans in the mid 1960's and have a bit of over 700 now. When you say your goal might be the Severan line, I hope you do not plan on getting just one coin from each person but recognize that there are thousands of options for how to collect. I like both of your coins. I might suggest a few others that would compliment them. First, both were rather cute kids and had their first coins several years before yours came out.
    Caracalla
    rm6510bb0493.jpg

    Geta
    rm7020bb0827.jpg

    Certainly you could also get coins that are not denarii:
    Caracalla as Caesar sestertius:
    rm6580b00126alg.jpg

    Geta as Caesar AE as (before you comment on the condition, show me a better one of this type):
    rm7070bb0413.jpg

    Then there are the denarii issued from mints in the East during the period that Septimius was out their making war:

    Caracalla from a Syrian mint (exact location less than certain but the old school still call this one Laodicea):
    rm6620bb1061.jpg

    Ditto Geta:
    rm6990bb1658.jpg

    Then there are coins issued for local use in the Provinces:

    Caracalla, silver tetradrachm from Antioch:
    pm1395fd3376.jpg

    Geta from Nicopolis with the Apollo Sauroktonos statue (the Louvre has a copy, the original is lost):
    pm1460b01682lg.jpg

    Domna's are not ALL pricey. Many are available in the same bracket as the boys' coins. This tetradrachm is, however, likely to be a bit more than you want to spend since it was struck in the Alexandria mint and shows the two boys shaking hands. The coin is dated within a few weeks of Geta's murder. If Caracalla knew that someone there issued this type, he must not have been pleased.
    pa1300fd3426.jpg

    Yes, some of us do specialize a bit more than you might want in the beginning. These denarii are all Eastern mints (Syria and Alexandria) and are all quite different in my eyes even if they all have the famous Venus from the rear reverse. The last one is out of place here since it shows Septimius Severus on the obverse.
    jdvveast.jpg

    Should we warn that you might want to run away now before the addiction grabs you without mercy? It may be too late already???
     
  6. RedStallions

    RedStallions Member

    It might be too late!
    These are very good points you make though and you're absolutely right on the variety. I think I will start with just a single coin for each emperor and family member, then I'd start on expanding from there. I was thinking of interesting ones like the dual portraits of Caracalla and Geta, and I briefly saw one with the whole family on a coin (forgot the name of this type of coin). There is a lot to choose from! I also really like these coins you are suggesting as well and especially the sestertius which I haven't been looking into recently.
     
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  7. RedStallions

    RedStallions Member

    I just have to say, thank you all for your comments, tips and suggestions! This community is very welcoming and I appreciate the help.
     
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  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    The Dynastic denarii and gold aurei are pricey. There is a Marcianopolis Provincial with the two boys when Septimius was still alive and insisted they behave with civility. It is not too expensive in moderate grade.
    pm1420bb1111.jpg

    The best Caracalla and Geta face to face coins are those of Stratonicea issued when they were younger but which had Geta scraped away in compliance with the orders of Caracalla after the murder. Other cities seemed to ignore this order. They are not cheap in condition any better than mine.
    pm1418fd0061.jpg
     
  9. OutsiderSubtype

    OutsiderSubtype Well-Known Member

    coin-collection895025-pACb6K-stitched-basic-medium.jpg
    This is my recently acquired Caracalla provincial from Tyre. Adult Caracalla is pretty much instantly recognizable with his curly beard and angry glare.

    Also this one has a murex shell between the eagle's legs which is fun because of the connection to the famous Tyrian purple dye.
     
  10. IMP Shogun

    IMP Shogun Well-Known Member

    My first ancient was a Septimius Severan. You have a couple of nice ones!


    Rounding out the family (top one is my first purchased ancient coin):

    Septimius Severus denarius 19mm, 3.39g:
    SEVERVS PIVS
    PART MAX P M TR P VIIII
    [​IMG]

    Julia Domna denarius from a Syrian mint 19mm 2.8g:
    IVLIA AVGVSTA / PVDICITIA
    [​IMG]
     
  11. RedStallions

    RedStallions Member

    Thanks for the comment and these are very nice coins you have as well! Really good condition!
     
  12. RedStallions

    RedStallions Member

    This is a really cool Caracalla coin you have, that eagle looks amazing. I’ve been looking for a coin similar to that myself!
     
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  13. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Some of my Septimius Severuses, none of them costing more than about $100 and some less.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. RedStallions

    RedStallions Member

    Yeah, it seems they are very pricey. This is something I may just keep in mind for the future in all honesty. I most definitely will be looking for a Septimus Severus coin for my next purchase though, or anything else in the Severan dynasty that catches my eye.
     
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  15. RedStallions

    RedStallions Member

    These are beautiful, what were the prices for #1 #5?
     
  16. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I will try to remember to dig out the invoices for you tomorrow and let you know, although I don't normally like to disclose the exact prices I paid. They were all bought from retail dealers, not at auction.
     
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  17. RedStallions

    RedStallions Member

    Totally fine! No need to. They look really cool, I’ll look into them.
     
  18. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    Welcome to the forum, @RedStallions ! As others have said, both your coins are very attractive examples, and there is no reason to doubt their authenticity. That's a great start for a collection of ancients (much better than my own first coins).

    As Doug has outlined above, the Severan period is a very rewarding field not only for beginners. Most coins from that time are affordable, and there is an abundance of interesting reverses beyond the usual "some allegorical figure standing there" types. It makes sense to start with having a coin per ruler, but it would be a pity to stop there.

    Below are some of my favorite Severan denarii, just to illustrate what is out there. The most obvious set is, as you outlined yourself, to start with the five male Severan rulers (Septimius Severus, Geta, Caracalla, Elagabalus, Severus Alexander):

    Rom – Septimius Severus, denar, Dea Caelestis.png
    Septimius Severus, Roman Empire, AR denarius, 202–210 AD, Rome mint. Obv: SEVERVS PIVS AVG; head of Septimius Severus, laureate, r. Rev: INDVLGENTIA AVGG IN CARTH; Dea Caelestis, draped, riding r. on lion, holding thunderbolt in r. hand and sceptre in l. hand; below, water gushing from rock. 19mm, 3.32g. Ref: RIC IV Septimius Severus 266.

    Rom – Caracalla, denar, Apollo mit Leier.png
    Caracalla, Roman Empire, denarius, 215 AD, Rome mint. Obv: ANTONINVS PIVS AVG GERM; laureate head of Caracalla r. Rev: P M TR P XVIII COS IIII P P; Apollo, naked except for cloak flying behind, standing l., holding branch in extended r. hand and with l. hand lyre set on altar. 21mm, 3.04g. Ref: RIC IV Caracalla 254.


    This is a young Geta portrait from an Eastern mint. For Geta and Caracalla, you can assemble sets of portraits showing them at a different age. Eastern mints have a different style of engraving:
    Rom – Geta, Denar, Spei Perpetuae, Laodicea, Ric 96.png
    Geta, Roman Empire, AR denarius, 198–200 AD, “Laodicea” mint. Obv: L SEPTIMIVS GETA CAES; bust of Geta, bare-headed, draped, r. Rev: SPEI PERPETVAE; Spes, draped, advancing l., holding flower in r. hand and raising skirt with l. hand. 20mm, 3.19g. RIC IV Geta 96.

    This coin is grossly underweight. I don't assume it to be unofficial though – it probably rather shows what a turbulent time Elagabalus' reign was. Things were all haywire, and that included the mint:
    Rom – Elagabal, denar, Sol mit Peitsche.png
    Elagabalus, Roman Empire, denarius, 220 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IMP ANTONINVS PIVS AVG; bust of Elagabalus, draped and laureate, r. Rev: P M TR P III COS III P P; Sol, radiate, naked except for cloak over l. shoulder, standing l., raising r. hand and holding whip in l. hand; in field l., star. 18mm, 1,80g. RIC IV Elagabalus 28b.

    Rom – Severus Alexander, Denar, Mars stehend mit Zweig.jpg
    Severus Alexander, Roman Empire, AR denarius, 224 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IMP C M AVR SEV ALEXAND AVG; bust of Severus Alexander, laureate and draped, r. Rev: P M TR P III COS P P; Mars standing l., helmeted and in military attire, holding spear and branch. 18mm, 3.21g. Ref: RIC RIC IV Severus Alexander 37.

    In addition, you can also assemble a collection of Severan women (Julia Domna, Plautilla, Julia Maesa, Julia Soaemias, Julia Mamaea, Julia Paula, Aquilia Severa, Orbiana). Some of them are not much harder to find that the male rulers, others (e.g. Julia Paula and Julia Soaemias) are a bit scarcer. Aquilia Severa and Orbiana are outright rare and expensive in presentable condition. I don't have coins of these two empresses.


    Rom – Julia Domna, denar, Venus v. hinten (neuestes Foto).png
    Julia Domna, Roman Empire, denarius, 193–196 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IVLIA DOMNA AVG; bust of Julia Domna, draped, r. Rev: VENERI VICTR, Venus standing with back turned, head r., holding apple in r. hand and palm in l., resting l. elbow on column. 18mm, 4.13g. Ref: RIC IV Septimius Severus 536.

    Rom – Julia Paula, Denar, Concordia.png
    Julia Paula, Roman Empire, denarius, 219–220 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IVLIA PAULA AVG; bust of Julia Paula, hair waved and fastened in plait, draped, r. Rev: CONCORDIA AVG; Concordia, draped, seated l., holding patera in extended r. hand; in field l, star. 19.5mm, 3.00g. Ref: RIC IV.2 Elagabalus 211.

    This coin is a recent purchase – look at that sneer! Julia Soaemias maybe is Rome's most hated empress.

    Rom – Julia Soaemias, denar, Venus caelestis.png
    Julia Soaemias, Roman Empire, AR denarius, 218–222 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IVLIA SOAEMIAS AVG, bust of Julia Soaemias, draped, r., hair waved and turned up low at the back. Rev: VENVS CAELESTIS; Venus, diademed, draped, seated l., holding apple in extended r. hand and sceptre in l. hand; at feet, child. 19mm, 3.39g. Ref: RIC IV Elagabalus 243.

    Rom – Julia Maesa, Denar, Pietas.png
    Julia Maesa, Roman Empire, AR denarius, 218–222 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IVLIA MAESA AVG, bust of Julia Maesa, draped, r., hair turned up low at the back. Rev: PIETAS AVG, Pietas standing facing, head l. raising both hands, burning altar to l. 20mm, 3.65g. Ref: RIC IV.2 Elagabalus 266.


    Finally, there are the challengers to the Severan dynasty. These include Septimius Severus' rivals at the beginning of his reign (Pertinax, Didius Julianus, Pescennius Niger, Clodius Albinus) as well as Caracalla's successors who were soon in conflict with Elagabalus' female realtives (Macrinus and his son Diadumenian). All of them are rather scarce and expensive. Below is my Macrinus:

    Rom – Macrinus, Denar, Jupiter RIC 76b.png
    Macrinus, Roman Empire, AR denarius, 217–218 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IMP C M OPEL SEV MACRINVS AVG; laureate and cuirassed short-bearded bust of Macrinus r. Rev: IOVI CONSERVATORI; Jupiter standing left, holding thunderbolt and sceptre; to left, small figure of Macrinus standing r. 20mm, 3.21g. Ref: RIC IV Macrinus 76b.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  19. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    @RedStallions.....Very nice looking coins to start your collection!....Great to hear that you started wisely using vcoins and Inicitatus has a very good reputation, his prices are also very competitive....
    Another small collection set you might be interested in are the 5 Good Emperors...Here's my set....Nerva is the most expensive but the other 4 I picked up for around $35 each...The ladies, if you then decide to add them, are more expensive maybe around $50 with the exception of Plotina!
    Which ever direction you decide to go for I'm sure you'll have great fun!..Enjoy!!
    5 GOOD EMPERORS.jpg
     
  20. RedStallions

    RedStallions Member

    These are very nice coins, I especially like the Septimus Severus coin with the lion on the reverse, really cool.
    I especially like the meanings behind the reverses, especially the small things like the cornucopia showing messages of abundance (very stressed way back during Augustus’ reign)
    I also like the Elagalabus coin you mention, the underweight is definitely an interesting mystery .
    Cool coins you have, especially the female relatives!
     
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  21. RedStallions

    RedStallions Member

    Thanks for you comment, nice coins as well!
    I first started by looking at Hadrian coins and I saw many nice ones out there.
     
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