Beautiful Ancient ID? Constantintinopolis/VLPP mule in appearance. Imitative legends

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Curtis, May 11, 2012.

  1. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    N.B. I stopped cleaning/restoring this coins as soon as I recognized it was something special. So beware that it is still "ucleaned." Cleaned it should show as much detail on the reverse as on the obverse laureate crown.

    This is not ordinary Constantine The Great VLPP (VICTORIAE LAETAE PRINC PERP, Twin Victories inscribing a shield over altar) coin. The reverse looks it, though the legends are not the in the Latin alphabet (Koine Greek, I think, the lingua franca of the northern Mediterannean ancient world, as I understand it). The obverse's major device appears to be a nice helmeted Constantinopolis (from Contantine's commemorative city coins). Again the legend is...well, weird.

    Any ideas??
     

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  3. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Looks barbaric to me. Trust me, an official issue written in Greek would not have been very popular. I don't see greek lettering really, more random shapes resembling letters, but I could be wrong since I cannot see them very clearly.
     
  4. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    Thank you. I appreciate the feedback on the legends. I was starting to think that too, even as I wrote the words myself! By the way--it had clear traces of silvering (still does, in fact), which is quite unusual. Just seems like such a highly sophisticated engraving for a barbaric issue. I've dozens, but none quite like this. Thanks again
     
  5. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I understand, but I have seen imitative issues that I thought the workmanship and overall quality was higher than many official issues. Remember, the germans have always had a penchant for high quality production. :) I see the same thing with imitative chinese coins made by the Japanese. The Japanese issues are actually higher quality than the Chinese ones are, in fact its one of the easiest ways to spot them.

    Some cultures have just always produced superior products, even if they were simply trying to copy another's.

    I like your coin.
     
  6. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    Haha, yes indeed! How right you are.

    And thank you!

    I do think it's interesting that even as long ago as the time of Philip the V (late 4th BC, thereabouts) the "Danubian Celts" were making more of the Strymon or Posseidon (river or water god) coins with Tridents on the reverse, and that some of them look much better than the Macedonians'. (Some look a lot worse, too, haha!) Also interesting that those two coins (the un/official Phlip V Tridents) were used interchangeably at the time, and that even today they have roughly the same value! (I just sold a lot of three, two imitative, one official, to a private client, who was very happy them.)

    I resumed lightly tooth-brushing and tooth-picking the reverse after your first comment, and, indeed, there is an obvious VICTORIA at the start of the legend. The centerpiece is actually coming out well too--the altar and shield. Too risky to keep going in search of a PR on the shield, but the altar clearly has a diamond shape with pellets around it. There is exquisite jibberish in the exergue. And traces of the original silvering are quite apparent. They must have used a very strong alloy and the coin must have been preserved in just the right circumstances, since this patina and flan are like a clam-shell! I'll try to get a closeup on the rev and upload...
     
  7. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    After giving another round of brushing, VICTORIA legend revealed, silvering preserved

    I'm a cautious coin cleaner. If I don't think I can clean with water, a toothbrush, and a toothpick I usually sell it. So this was an "easy cleaner" begin with. medoraman, your comments gave me the confidence to finish cleaning it as far as i will probably take it (realizing it is an imitative, not a rarity of some sort--which happens surprisingly often for them to be considered rarities). This is a different light, so it makes the coin look a little darker than in reality, but here's how I'll leave it:
    c.ImitativeVLPPBothSides.jpg
     
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