Bean Wars - CAC

That's because CAC has a lot of volume. You could argue that it is contrary to his goal, but he can only work but so fast. It doesn't change the thrust of the liquidity argument.

I am not suggesting that one automatically buy only CAC coins or pay a substantially higher price merely because the coin was CAC verified. I will buy a coin I like regardless of whether it has a sticker and regardless of whether PCGS and NGC have slabbed it. I have even bought raw coins. (And that isn't sarcasm directed at you).

With regards to liquidity, liquidity refers to the ability to quickly turn coins into cash at fair prices. As such, CAC verified coins are highly liquid as I am one phone call away from a cash offer. And in every dealing I have had with them, I was treated very fairly and made more than I would have netted after an auction and there is no delay. Thus, yes, the coins are highly liquid and can be quickly converted to cash without a lot of time or expense. And for that reason, I submit coins. I think of it as a cheap insurance policy - I can get the money out when I need it if I have an emergency or if I need to raise capital for another project/acquisition.

Edited: With regards to acquiring CAC coins, the sticker does not materially affect the price I will pay. I will pay a price that is proportional to the quality of the coin whether the exceptional quality has been recognized by CAC or not.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

CAC well John bank account is larger and collector are paying a inflated prices for coins that can only be within their preset dates. Tpg they will grade or inspected any coin. Will CAC well no they fish in their own barrel. Buy your Beans and hope you're not going to fart when John boat hits a sandbar.

 

Yes, but the current reality does not match that statement. I see a fad that is close to its peak level of interest, based on prices being paid for CAC stickers.

Yes, but, I also see the possibility of being 1-click away from a cancelled membership situation. We can even call it a reality situation. What else can change?

I'm getting the feeling that, it is likely for a person to overpay for the CAC sticker, then not be able to find a dealer or sensible customer, such as yourself, to take the coin off their hands for break even money or a small profit. The TPGs have a price gauge for their own coins. CAC is letting the imaginations of some come up with whacky, over the top prices. At the same time, they seem to play with their exclusivity, at first only dealers, then special collectors, now a closed membership. Wonder what's next?

 

In theory, solid to high end coins should sell for more than lower end coins, and theoretically CAC coins should thus command premiums in many instances because of the quality of the coin and not the sticker. Nevertheless, I agree that this is not always the market reality, and in many cases a coin with a sticker would sell for more than the same coin without the sticker. I don't expect that to last, and would expect some price adjustments accordingly.

You can sell to CAC without being a CAC member. This doesn't change your argument about potential policy changes though, and absolutely, that could happen. That's why I pay a price I am comfortable with for the quality of the coin. I think JA and CAC would probably recommend the same.

I also agree that there is a fad like mentality among some in the market place that was (in my opinion) unanticipated by CAC. Nevertheless, my comments about liquidity were aimed at CAC bids and not necessarily the larger market context. If I am unable to sell a coin at a price I am comfortable with, I will often send it to CAC. In many instances, its bid levels were near my asking price and I simply moved the coins that way. Put another way, I think CAC is an invaluable marketing tool, and I believe in firmly using it as a marketing strategy and to quickly move pieces.

CAC establishes its own price lists and cannot completely control the behavior of participants in the larger market. Sometimes things get out of hand. JA made some comments about proportionality in pricing that I will try to find. Don't quote me on the specifics of that though.

I don't see that as affecting the liquidity of already stickered coins. Anyone, including non-members, can sell to CAC to the best of my knowledge.

 

In a few cases, the prices may be artificially inflated, but in many series I think the prices were artificially deflated (at least for solid and high end pieces) by the crap that the TPGs were turning out. The standards at both NGC and PCGS have tightened up considerably since 2009. I cannot prove that it is because of CAC, but I don't think CAC hindered it!

And this is not to say that nice coins don't exist without stickers. They absolutely do! Cherry pick them. I do and I have a high sticker rate with CAC.

 

I must know on a one one basis at least 25 plus dealers in the area I live. If you came to any one of them and sold them a raw,slab or slabed with a sticker they look at their grey sheet and make you a offer. Depending on the coin and their inventory. If the coin is raw they are going to make the call as to it's grade. If graded let's say a ms 63 again they are going to offer you grey sheet.....let's say the slab has a sticker they don't care! End of story! It may help when they sell it as a selling point ......however they won't give you a red cent more then grey sheet. I was at a show about two months ago. I purchased a coin in an old rattler holder. It HAD a sticker on it.
I asked a price.... I gave a counter offer less the sticker he accepted. He asked me why I wanted it removed. I said that I personally take no merit in a stranger eye on grading or regarding a coin I already know to be what it is.
He told me straight up none of his regular customers have any faith over a coin that has a sticker. So as a selling point his customers rely on their own eye, and buy the coin not a slab or a sticker.

 

CAC stickers are NOT a grade. There a opinion. That all your wasting money on if you only buy beans .
Best way to buy any coin is homework and learning how to grade a coin. Plan and simple.

 

Correct it's their opinion .
What really tickles me is seeing a coin slabed that it's value is worth less then the cost of having the coin slabed .
Many times I have seen coins graded in NGC or PCGS slabs that are in the half price box.

 

I was just sifting through their website info, so that's what I went with...

4. How will coins with CAC stickers be priced?

Ultimately, the free market decides the value of coins. It will be influenced by how many coins in a specific grade are considered low quality. For example, an MS 65 1922 $20 Saint with a CAC sticker might have a large bid price premium over market-acceptable non-stickered examples, because perhaps only 20% of those submitted will meet or exceed CAC’s high quality standards. A 1923-D $20 Saint could be a very different story, because there are a fairly large number of nice quality 1923-D Saints in MS 65 holders that should qualify for a CAC sticker. As a result, they will almost certainly trade at a smaller premium over the market-acceptable non-stickered coins.


It is CAC’s goal to recognize and give deserved credit to quality coins. It is our hope and strong belief that this process will minimize the unfair negative effect on quality coins by decoupling them from their lower-end counterparts. One can only wonder what the price of an MS 65 1922 $20 Saint would be today if the CAC stickering process had been in place five years ago.


CAC is currently working on an exchange for certified coins and other numismatic products. We expect that there will be enough activity on the new exchange to justify published CAC Values sometime in 2008.

 

So when did CAC open for business? 2007?

 

November 1, 2007. It didn't open to collectors until 2009, I believe. That's also about the time when I began to notice more and more of their coins on the market.

 

Thanks. I just received my results from a recent submission. I batted 60%.

While I don't only buy CAC coins, nor do I think they are infallible, I submitted them primarily for two reasons:

1. It's nice to get the opinion of a recognized numismatist
2. When I go to sell the coins, having the CAC sticker will only be a benefit.

 

Agreed, and congratulations on your results. Your percentage is good. I believe JA is credited as saying that only 40% or so of coins submitted (both PCGS and NGC) sticker.

 

I don't always buy slabbed coins, but when I do I prefer ones with green CAC's. Stay thirsty my friends.

 

Thanks. I was told similar by the dealer submitting my coins (Lost Dutchman). I had two disappointments. 78 8TF and 35 MS65 Peace Dollar. I still love them both, but I can't understand why they didn't bean. Oh well, not a big deal.

 

jp, that is a great 35 Peace.