Bad news on my new JC Coin - update

Well my balloon popped pretty quickly on the new JC coin .. as I was notified by PM by two very respected members that there was extensive tooling and.. ya.. not good.

If you want to relive my extreme happiness - and try to pinpoint exactly when my bubble burst well the thread is here:
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/well-i-did-it-julius-caesar.345331/

I was actually even more ecstatic than I sound in the post.. it was an incredible feeling that did not end well. So that was not fun at all (and embarrassing) - yesterday was not my best day.

I sent an email to the seller last night and an offer for a full refund was immediately forthcoming. I have exercised that option. So that is good.

I really thought I had checked things out sufficiently: purchase from a respected dealer with a 100% refund policy, I reviewed the Fake Coin Reports on Forvm, I reviewed dozens of coins of this type to get a feel for what I was looking for. What probably threw me off was the wide range of portrait styles and with many in rough shape I guess I could not see the issues. I suppose it is a bit of seeing what you want to see and inexperience that led to this mistake.

Thank you to the members who PM'd me and pointed out this issue (and for being so respectful of my feelings, etc). It is embarrassing but it would be even more embarrassing to keep posting this every chance I got and only hearing about the concerns a year from now... when I could do nothing about it.

If anyone sees a coin of this type at a reasonable price I would appreciate knowing about it.

**Also if you have the inside track on a bridge in Brooklyn and some swamp land in Florida apparently I am your man!

In all seriousness I am determined not to let this ruin my enjoyment of this hobby.

Cheers! Have a great Monday.

 

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My commiserations Clavdivs. In a strange way, this is the best possible outcome, even though it must be quite unpleasant in the moment.

Onwards and upwards.

 

I browsed the coins of this dealer on VCoins and found at least one obvious cast. I personally would not buy from him. "Never drink from a poison well"

 

Totally feel your pain on this one, as I am sure many of us here can.
I am SOOOO glad you were able to get refunded. It was a free lesson...but like the devil in Stephen King's Needful Things reminds us, nothing is free.
You talking about the exact moment that the bubble popped reminded me of when Bart shows Lisa the exact moment she broke poor Ralphie Wiggums heart. I have to assume this is close to how you felt...

 

I'm so sorry for you. But it's just a coin. It's not fake, "just" worked out. Many around here would never accept a tooled or smoothed coin. Others would have no problems. It is not a rare coin that cannot really be exchanged for another. If it was rare, I really don’t mind with this. Certainly better ones will appear.

 

I am glad everything seems to be working out but there is one thing gnawing at my gut that will make me question further dealings here. Someone explain to me a reasonable explanation. The sale had many, many unsold lots. Unsold lots of decent coins generally means the start/reserve price of the item was too high. The Caesar in question had a start at $100 which is low for this popular type and resulted in the hammer price being three times the start. Looking at the coin except for the tooling I see a coin cheap at the hammer and ridiculously low at the start. Why was this lot started so low? The obvious answer is that someone knew it had a problem but that problem - the tooling - was not described. I did not see the start prices listed on the unsold lots so I do not know, I only assume, they did not sale for too high starts. A dealer who did not recognize the tooling would have started the coin higher. The combination of the low start and the undisclosed tooling brings to question if almurrai has the answer.

We all make mistakes. When I see a imitation silk purse offered for a sow's ear price, I fear deceit rather than ignorance. I have no problem with ignorance and participate in it heavily myself. I'll offer my old favorite quote: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." Through life, we all make thousands of mistakes but the only ones that really hurt are the ones we insist on making over and over again. Set me straight. What am I missing here that would make me believe the seller did not know about the tooling?

 

lol... exactly the same!! I remember that episode well...

 

Silver lining - you have budget and get to shop for more coins.

 

That is too bad for you Clavdivs! Good though you get a total refund. Keep your hopes up, and hopefully you will be able to find a good specimen of the coin!

 

Ugh, @Clavdivs , bummer about the over extensive tooling. Hopefully, everything works out smoothly on the return. Frustrating that you went from that coin-high to a bummer.

But, the experts privately (and nicely), helped you point out the concerns. I have a lot of respect with that kind of approach. I never really liked the open-season approach of piling on with OPINIONS. Rather, I like the expert opinion dissecting the reasons WHY, and backed with experience and fact.

Once everything settles out with auction, you will have seed-money to go get that Caesar! I look forward to you posting that awesome capture!

The Game is afoot! Good luck!

 

@Clavdivs

I am sorry that this happened to you. I know how happy you were to win this one. That said, it is better to know now. A few days ago I received a pm telling me that a coin of mine was a match to a known fake. I appreciated the effort this member made to inform me of his suspicions. He did so with an overlay that demonstrated that my coin and the fake look like they came from the same dies. While I deplore the many screams of fake from trouble makers on this site, I also appreciate the honest efforts of those who are trying to help. With my coin, I bought it from CNG. I contacted them last week and they were supposed to get back to me by now. I will have to wait and see what happens.

I truly hope you find a great coin to replace this one.

 

Darn, sorry that happened to you. But look at the bright side, at least you have money for coins.

You could be me with zero budget for coins for the next 3 months after paying for my upcoming trips to Zurich, Barcelona, and Munich. On the bright side, I get to spend almost 2 weeks in Europe....but no coins

 

Sorry to hear about the tooling Clavdivs......I see that this coin amongst others from the auction are up for sale on vcoins at the moment...The JC now being described as tooled!

 

Yes I just noticed the coin on VCoins - now mentioning tooling...

https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/nu...ivus_julius_caesar_38_bc/1185958/Default.aspx

 

@Clavdivs , I feel your pain friend - having found the one that seemed to tick all the boxes and not having given in to the temptation to settle and then to become aware of this. As others mentioned you now have a coin budget, but I might suggest saving the money the dealer returned and then adding to that stash down the line so that you might have a bit bigger budget the next time you find a nice JC.

“If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment.” ― Henry David Thoreau

 

I've probably missed something here!...I've sort of just gone along with the tooling statement but now I'm wondering if somone can explain what are the signs on this coin?....
I've changed my direction slightly in my collecting areas and have started to acquire the big Roman bronzes, Sestertius , Dupondius etc and know these can be prone to tooling but would really like some expert guidlines? ..

 

Claudius, you should certainly NOT feel embarrassed. Who has never been in that situation? My very first ancient coin I bought when I was 14 years old was a fake sestertius of Vespasian. We just persevere , learn, and most of all enjoy this hobby.
If I see this type, I will message you.

 

First thing : do not be ashamed of your misadventure. You did things correctly and made your homework before buying the coin. Even the best experts here on CT have been fooled before. There are maybe more members that you think who were notified by PM about one of their coin...and you got the courage to go public with it.

2nd thing : please don’t let that story stopping you from posting your new acquisitions on this forum ; I’m sure everyone agrees that your active contribution in the discussions here is really appreciated !

 

Ok now, as a 'moderator' on VCoins I have the ability to address this issue. Keep in mind it takes three of us to agree on an issue and have a coin removed from the site, so it may take a small amount of time.

I'm on it.