I find this interesting the arguments. DC uses an existing coin, and defaces/restrikes a new image/ etc a coin. Thus the coin has a value before he changes it. It thus has a base value (PM, etc) plus an numismatic/artistic value. When he passes (not offense to DC) will these be considered works of "art" and thus gain valuation such as with paintings? If the coin enters the money supply, which may very well happen, will it be noticed immediately ? ie, someone finds a DC Morgan in their grandpas stuff and takes it to the convenience store and buys $1 worth of bubblegum for the Morgan Dollar. The register lady won't notice anything past $1, if it is even accepts it (as one may not even accept a regular Morgan dollar). If it is, then it's value is $1 at that point. Will the, say Brinks, notice that the date is wrong. They'll probably remove it from circulation but after that point when it is removed from circulation either way and replaced would it even be noticed that the date is wrong before it gets destroyed? It's kinda like a 1933 quarter. I never knew there wasn't one until a thread today. No one looks at date when the stuff is used for commerce. I received a Bahama's penny recently, as a penny aka 1 cent. Who notices this stuff except for someone that looks at their change. Same shape and size, but it certainly isn't a US coin. I can return it to the money supply and I'm sure no one would notice. With all the strike image variations with modern quarters, nickels, etc noticing a "fake" whatever is very hard today.
We live in a country where things have to be proven to be illegal not the other way around. Anyone who thinks they are can think what they want but it is nothing more than their opinion. ANACS and ICG grading them is a fact. The ANA dismissing a complaint is a fact. Any legal interpretations by anyone are just opinions.
Doesn't the TPGs grade about anything. US Coins, foreign coins, PM bars, medallions, etc ? Thus a DC item is no different from anything else that they grade.
Not anything. ANACS won't grade fakes, ICG will if requested but they're put in a slab that says fake or counterfeit.
I think that is a very reasonable solution. Might I propose that all comments about investment potential, the legal status (either way) of the pieces, and all other comments be prohibited?
That's fine by me. Whoever sets up the thread can set the topic. Off topic posts generally aren't welcome anywhere.
You are confusing an individuals presumption of innocence granted under the law with illegality. Also as I've repeatedly posted the courts opinion, even though you don't like it, those opinions of the court are in fact law. And not just law, but as the updated HPA shows they are the preceding case law in regards to this matter. The ANA is not in anyway a representative legal organization to determine criminality for the U.S. government. The fact you keep bringing it up is laughable it's nothing more than a logical fallacy attempting to appeal to authority same with stating that second/third tier grading companies will slab these.
don't they grade medallions/tokens though ? on another item, I do find it interesting that Liberty Dollar was seized by federal authorities in 2007 and the reasoning (from a very short article) was due to resemblance of US currency, and other factors. I know nothing about this or TPG limits .. just trying to understand better.
That is not quite how discussions work here. The starter of a topic does not "own" it - if you start one, you may of course call it my topic when referring to it but it's not yours. Your posts are yours with regard to copyright for example, but most topics here are discussions that involve more than one member. Yes, off-topic posts are usually not welcome. But many threads do meander, as we see here. Suggesting that people refrain from commenting does not really make sense for a site like Coin Talk. Christian
The Liberty Dollar organization was attempting to establish their tokens as a form of legal tender, supplanting Federal Reserve Notes in circulation. They actively tried to get merchants to accept the tokens as legal tender. In contrast, I do not make any legal tender claims for my fantasy-date over-strikes. Liberty Dollar tokens in individuals' hands were not confiscated. Only the property and inventory of the Liberty Dollar organization was confiscated. Sunshine Minting, the company that actually manufactured the Liberty Dollars, was never charged with any crime, not did they have any of their assets, supplies, or equipment confiscated.
If a person doesn't notice the date, or doesn't care about the date, a small "DC" somewhere isn't going to make any difference. Even a large "COPY" mark hasn't prevented items from being used in a scam attempt or getting into circulation. I do put a "DC" (designer's initials) on items that are entirely of my own original design.
Please direct your comments to @Blissskr who seems to have sufficiently provided legal facts from the government that merit a response. The ANA, ANACS, and ICG are all non-government entities that make money from promoting anything that is a coin or coin-like. Since the pro Carr side refuses to acknowledge and respond to efforts to present such legal facts, my statement stands and you are only bolstering my statement by arguing against me (who is an impartial observer but still hasn't seen that critical thinking/discussion portion) instead of the facts presented...
They do, they vary from TPG to TPG a bit on what they will or will not grade. ICG seems to be the one that will grade almost anything while ANACS is a little more conservative in what they accept. They were also ordered to be returned near the end of 2015 I believe.
They aren't, but being the lead numismatic association they would be considered an expert witness. Your interpretation is that what you post applies, others disagree.
Ahh, yes, I now see the critical thinking. Please note the sarcasm. I haven't interpreted anything, I've merely read some actual legal findings on similar instances and said "gee, these kind of seem similar". Now, if you had responded with "well, you see, his coins do not do XYZ that these other coins did, so that's why it doesn't apply", then I'd have considered your response and learned something. Instead, your response is "I have a different opinion because that doesn't apply" without even making an effort to explain why it doesn't apply. You didn't respond to any of the facts presented, you're just pushing your agenda while dismissing anything that you don't agree with. Clearly I'm not getting through to you, let's just end it there.
