Authenticity concerns about 8 Reales coin

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Stevearino, Nov 2, 2020.

  1. Stevearino

    Stevearino Supporter! Supporter

    Hi world coin folks,

    @Jasanche was so helpful with an Egyptian 10 Qirsh I posted this morning. I’m hoping to get opinions on the authenticity of this 1840 8 Reales.

    It measures 38+ mm (as far as I can measure without a mm caliper) compared to Numista’s 38.9 mm. Weight is 27.30 g compared to the Numista weight of 27.07 g.

    My concerns are the small pits (?) which I hope are not casting defects.

    I also wonder if there is any standard for tolerances in weight? It is a smidgen too heavy, but might be within tolerances?

    What do you think?
    Steve
    86231FE9-7B75-4131-BC41-49B2A2AE5887.jpeg 2CF9CF93-243C-488E-BFA6-EE745904D5FA.jpeg 8C2FB47E-B660-491C-B06B-F4C3555F7E89.jpeg B0A70989-4714-4289-AAB9-088BDDA5E2DB.jpeg
     
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  3. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Something doesn’t look right. Color seems off
     
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  4. Stevearino

    Stevearino Supporter! Supporter

    Wondering also about the "8" on the obverse (?) in the "8 R;" seems to be missing the entire lower left curve.

    Steve
     
  5. Stevearino

    Stevearino Supporter! Supporter

    I'm thinking if your opinions suggest fake, I'll take it to the nearest LCS (which isn't so near); they once kicked out a very convincing fake Walker when I was selling a few rolls earlier this fall. I'm not sure how they tell, or what equipment they use, as customers were only allowed in the lobby due to Covid restrictions.

    At least it's not attracted to a magnet.

    Steve
     
  6. Jasanche

    Jasanche Member

    I am far from an expert on these, and there are die varieties galore... but the lettering and some of the detail make me a little sceptical.

    If you have a good scale, why don't you check the specific density of it? It is not that hard once you get the hang of it and, aside from the scale, you don't really need any specialty equipment, nor does it damage the coin.

    EDIT: the density should be around 10.35 for this coin, I think...

    John
     
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  7. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

  8. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    Im seeing a casting. The details are that of a cast not struck image.
     
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  9. Stevearino

    Stevearino Supporter! Supporter

    Thanks, guys. @messydesk, comparing mine to the enlarged images you gave me the link to, there is NO question in my mind that I've ended up with a fake. Now the question for me is how to get satisfaction from the auctioneer in New York.

    Steve
     
  10. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    Eagle looks weird compared to any 8R I've seen
     
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  11. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Well-Known Member

    Horrible fake... check the neck detail from the HA auction

    upload_2020-11-2_19-14-18.png

    The coin should have FEATHERS not SCALES.
     
  12. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Demand a refund. PayPal or CC chargeback if you used either. Make him famous only as a last resort.
     
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  13. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    There is an actual expert, swamperbob, on the world forum at CoinCommunity.com. Don't be disappointed if it turns out to be a contemporary counterfeit as those have good collectible value.
     
  14. serafino

    serafino Well-Known Member

    Were contemporary fakes made with a lesser percentage of silver ?
     
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  15. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    In general, yes. However, there were times in the late 1800's when there was a glut of silver on the market and counterfeiters could make a correct alloy fake and still profit because the value of the coin greatly exceeded the value of the silver content.
     
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  16. Stevearino

    Stevearino Supporter! Supporter

    I contacted the auction house. They've called me back and I missed the call. But it sounds like they are willing to make it right. I'll post the results of my efforts when I know something definite. Thanks, again, everyone for the input.

    Steve
     
  17. Stevearino

    Stevearino Supporter! Supporter

    Well, the auction house is willing to buy back the entire lot of 13 coins, but they won't just make an adjustment for the one rotten apple. I've decided, I think, to keep the whole lot, including the counterfeit 8 reales. I still think I can make a bit of profit on the remaining dozen.

    Anyone know of a CTer especially interested in what is likely a contemporary counterfeit?

    Steve
     
  18. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    Likely? Better to know for sure. Again, try posting at the world forum on CoinCommunity.com
     
  19. Stevearino

    Stevearino Supporter! Supporter

    @jgenn, appreciate the advice. I tried to get into CC but haven't visited that forum for years, so couldn't recall my user name or pw. I tried to register and couldn't because "email was already in use." Finally found a Contact Us link, reported my issues, and hope to be able to contact swamperbob soon.

    Steve
     
  20. Stevearino

    Stevearino Supporter! Supporter

    Finally into the CoinCommunity forum and looking for swamperbob. Can’t email him as I’m too new on that forum, but I’ll find a way to raise him.

    Steve
     
  21. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Well-Known Member

    FWIW, he's been offline since the 9th.

    Throw up a thread in the forum, PM me your CCF id and I'll send him an email.
     
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