Authentic? Trajan Kaiserzeit Denar?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by KAJ, May 15, 2024 at 7:00 AM.

?

Is this coin Authentic?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. KAJ

    KAJ New Member

    Hey guys!

    I've been collecting coins for 7 years now. Still a junior, considering the amount of times i've judged fake coins as authentic.

    So i decided from now on i will trust my gut AND cointalk :shame:. would really appreciate some experienced opinions, its the worst feeling discovering your beloved coin is a fake.

    Have a look at our good friend Trajan:

    upload_2024-5-15_13-48-46.png upload_2024-5-15_13-48-57.png

    Picture on google to compare:
    upload_2024-5-15_13-48-6.png


    The coin diameter is around >23 MM
    The only info i have is that picture an aprox. diameter. no weight.

    The dealer has some fakes he is unaware of, but with no intention of selling me fakes on purpose or tricking me.

    Its difficult for me to authenticate coins because i purchase them exclusivity online.

    Thank you in advance!

    P.S coin price is 60$
     
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  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Hard to judge with just an image and no aditional information. However, If the seller has fakes for sale, I would be very hesitant to purchase from them.

    My example:
    Trajan 11.jpg
     
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  4. -monolith-

    -monolith- Supporter! Supporter

    I agree with Mr. Bing, avoid this dealer. There are countless reputable dealers available. Without any further information (size / weight) it's difficult to determine authenticity, however I don't see anything glaring that would make me assume it's fake. I.E. the toning, wear patterns, portraits and inscriptions all look good. The price $60 seems high for the condition. I purchased these at auction for around $57 each

    photo.jpg photo.jpg
     
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  5. Homer2

    Homer2 Well-Known Member

    I'd hold out for a better example for that price. Size is listed as +/- 23mm? Seems large for that type, especially if that worn. The one for sale looks like the 17-19mm types. See this CoinArchives search.

    I have a Rome mint denarius version of that coin, and would like to find a Bostra drachm of this type with Greek script.
    upload_2024-5-15_17-42-12.jpeg
     
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  6. sand

    sand Well-Known Member

    Hello @KAJ
    Welcome to Coin Talk Ancients.
    Here are a couple of good places, to shop for ancient coins, and medieval coins, and modern coins. I know that Vcoins has policies to try to prevent fakes from being sold on its web site. I think MA-Shops probably also has such policies. There may be a few fakes, but the fakes seem to be rare, on these 2 web sites. Also, if I remember correctly, these 2 web sites have money back guarantees, that the coins are not fakes.
    Vcoins : https://www.vcoins.com/en/Default.aspx
    MA-Shops : https://www.ma-shops.com/
    On both of the above web sites, you can do a keyword search, for the following 2 keywords : Trajan denarius
    You can also view different categories of coins, such as Roman Imperial Coins, Greek Coins, etc.
    You can also find ancient coins on Ebay, but you have to be very careful, and you have to be knowledgeable about the coin type for which you are shopping, because there are many fakes on Ebay. However, there are some good dealers on Ebay.
    I agree with everyone above, that the price ($60) seems high, given the appearance of the coin. I recommend shopping around some more. Look at the condition of the coin, and look at the appearance of the coin. Look at the style of the portrait. Some portraits have good style, and some portraits have average style, and some portraits have poor style. The same is true, for the design of the reverse side of the coin.
    Regarding authenticity of the coin, it's good that you have asked Coin Talk Ancients about it. Myself, I'm not expert enough in the coin type, to know if the coin is authentic or fake. Nothing about the coin screams "fake" to me, but that's just my educated guess.
    I often search the following web site, for examples of a coin, if I'm trying to figure out, if a coin is fake.
    ACsearch : https://www.acsearch.info/
    Here are some not very good photos of my Trajan denarius. The 1st pair of photos are the seller photos. The 2nd pair of photos are the seller photos, which I lightened using a photo editor. The final photo is 1 of my not very good photos. The coin is rather dark, because of the tone/tarnish.
    upload_2024-5-15_11-40-12.jpeg
    upload_2024-5-15_11-40-46.jpeg
    upload_2024-5-15_11-43-40.jpeg
    Trajan. AR Denarius. Minted 108 AD To 109 AD. Rome Mint. RIC 119. Maximum Diameter 19 mm. Weight 2.86 grams. Obverse : Trajan Bust Facing Right. Reverse : Aequitas Seated Holding Scales And Cornucopia.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2024 at 1:22 PM
    Bing likes this.
  7. GinoLR

    GinoLR Well-Known Member

    This is a Trajan Arabia drachm.
    They were believed minted in Caesarea of Cappadocia, and in the 1970s Kindler attributed them to Bostra, Arabia. Now, the present doxa among numismatists is that these Aabia-drachms were minted in Antioch, Syria, or somewhere on the Syrian coast, for circulation in Arabia. The camel-drachms were later minted in Rome for circulation in Arabia, too.
     
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  8. KAJ

    KAJ New Member

    Thanks a bunch!
    I'm going to try and find another source to purchase from.
    also thats an awesome example.
     
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  9. KAJ

    KAJ New Member

    Thank you for the reply.
    Man, I gotta say, I was pretty surprised when I saw the coin you snagged for that price. When I think auctions, I usually think crazy expensive stuff, but it looks like I've been overpaying all this time.

    I've only ever used LiveAuctioneers before, but like I mentioned, everything there seems to be way outta my budget. You got any recommendations for other auctions or websites?

    Thanks again! Stay tuned I've got a whole lot of stories about purchasing sketchy stuff LOL
     
    sand likes this.
  10. KAJ

    KAJ New Member

    Exactly! I also thought the size was strange. and that's a lovely coin. If there's one lesson I've learned about authenticating coins, it's that you immediately know an authentic coin when you see one; it just screams authentic! The picture you shared is incredible, and good luck on finding a Bostra Drachm.
     
    sand likes this.
  11. KAJ

    KAJ New Member


    Mr Sand!
    I'm not sure if I should thank you, because you just opened up a whole new way for me to spend more money, LOL. But jokes aside, thank you! I just checked out Vcoins and Ma shops. Honestly, I've never bought from places like that before because I didn't know anyone who had, so I wasn't ready to.

    Also, the pictures you posted? That's a nice approach to seeing details on a coin. I'm going to lighten up my pictures too; it gives a whole new perspective on the coin.

    I'm currently living abroad, so let me know if you don't recommend international shipping from any of those websites.

    I'm super excited to share a bunch of stories with you guys. My mom's originally from Lebanon, so we get to go there often. And let me tell you, ruins are just everywhere! I contemplate quitting my job every day and going to look for artifacts, even though I know absolutely nothing about that, LOL. I've found a few things here and there, mostly pieces of sculptures.

    Thank you again and we'll be in contact.
     
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  12. KAJ

    KAJ New Member

    Thank you for the info.
    I searched that up previously, but the camel drachm i had no idea about.
     
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  13. sand

    sand Well-Known Member

    There are many auction houses, for ancient coins. I live in the USA. I used to buy from outside of the USA, but for the past 16 months, I've only been buying from sellers who are located in the USA, for various reasons.
    There are high end auction houses, in which the coins tend to be on the expensive side. And, there are low end auction houses, in which there are many inexpensive coins. And, there are medium priced auction houses. Here are the auction houses, that I know, which seem reputable, to me. There are other auction houses, but these are my favorites.

    LOW END AUCTION HOUSES
    Tiber Numismatics. Located in the USA. This auction house looks promising : https://tibercoins.com/
    Savoca. Located in Germany. I've won coins from this auction house : https://www.savoca-coins.com/en/

    MEDIUM PRICED AUCTION HOUSES
    Naville. Located in England. I've won 1 coin from this auction house : https://www.navillenumismatics.com/
    CGB Auctions. Located in France. This auction house looks promising : https://www.cgb.fr/
    Nomos. Located in Switzerland. Recommended by other ancients collectors : https://nomosag.com/auction

    HIGH END AUCTION HOUSES
    CNG. Located in the USA. I've won coins from this auction house : https://www.cngcoins.com/
    Heritage Auctions. Located in the USA. I've won coins from this auction house, but I only bid on their NGC Ancients slabbed coins, because I don't trust their knowledge any further than that. Luckily, most of their ancient coins are in NGC Ancients slabs : https://coins.ha.com/c/search/resul...495&dept=1909&live_state=5318&sb=4&page=200~1
    Stephen Album. Located in the USA. I've won coins from this auction house. They are good for nonclassical/non-European ancient coins : https://db.stevealbum.com/php/home.php

    Also, if you want to try less well known auction houses, and smaller auction houses, then the following 2 web sites, allow you to search through, and bid at, multiple auction houses. If I remember correctly, many ancients collectors use these 2 web sites.
    Biddr : https://www.biddr.com/
    Numisbids : https://www.numisbids.com/

    I like to pay for auction wins, and fixed price coins (Vcoins or MA-Shops), using Pay Pal, when I am allowed to do so.
    Sometimes fixed priced dealers, like the ones at Vcoins and MA-Shops, have better deals than auctions. And, sometimes auctions have better deals, than fixed price dealers. Luck is a factor.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2024 at 4:32 AM
  14. KAJ

    KAJ New Member


    Highly appreciated, thank you. I'll start by checking out the low end and maybe explore some mid-range options as well. The only thing I'm worried about is shipping outside the USA since I'm currently working in Qatar. I tested out Vcoins by entering my address, but they displayed the following message when checking out: "Shipping Our address validation service does not recognize your shipping address as a valid address. Please correct it, if possible. If you are sure that it is accurate, please continue with your order." My address was very specific, including the zone, street, and building.

    I think the only way to find out is to test it. I might start with something small just to make sure shipping won't be a problem. Currently checking out Savoca, trying my best not to impulse buy right away, haha.

    I'll keep you updated on this, and again, I really appreciate the support.
     
    sand likes this.
  15. sand

    sand Well-Known Member

    You're welcome @KAJ. Good luck to you.
    That sounds like a good idea, to start with an inexpensive purchase, just to see if your address will work correctly with Vcoins.
    Check to ensure, that the parts of your address, have been entered into the correct text areas, on the web page.
     
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