Austrian gold coin 1752

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by donnylad, Mar 22, 2004.

  1. donnylad

    donnylad New Member

    My father left me a small coin in a paper envelope. It is gold colored about 1/2 inch across and 1/8th inch thick. On one side is the Austrian coat of arms and the following legend "TU DOMINE SPES MEA.1752." the other side has the bust of a man with long hair tied back and the legend "FRANC.D.G.R.I.S. A.GERI BR.REX.". It is in excellent condition. Is this a Francis I gold ducat and what would be an approx. value?

    regards, Donnylad.
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    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Howdy donnylad - Welcome to the Forum !!

    It kind of sounds like it might be - but the only way to even make an educated guess is to see a pic of the coin. Even then it would not be possible to guarantee it is authentic - but it certainly helps.
  4. Ian

    Ian Coin Collector

    This describes an Austrian gold ducat. However, that coin is rarely seen on the market.

    What IS seen with increasing frequency is a silver like replica which has a yellow gold plating added to it, designed to deceive. To the inexperienced it appears to be a `gold' coin (which of course it isn't).

    To be frank, I would very much doubt that you have the real McCoy but a scan might help determine that.

  5. donnylad

    donnylad New Member

    Thanks for the replies. I have my father's notes when he bought the coin from a well known dealer in Doncaster Yorkshire in the 60's and I cannot imagine why he would buy a fake. What is the 'scan' you refer to and how would it determine if the coin is fake or not?

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The scan Ian mentioned is the same thing I was talking about - a picture of the coin. Even though it would not provide definitive evidence - it would be very helpful in determining the authenticity of the coin.

    And we mean no disrespect towards you or your father. Nor do we mean to imply that he would knowingly buy a fake. It is just that in many cases even well known and respected dealers have been fooled into thinking that coins such as the one you mention are genuine.

    Your coin may indeed be genuine. But it is also possible that the dealer and your father could have been fooled by this coin. This is the only reason for our skepticism - that and the coin you mention is rarely seen.
  7. Harry

    Harry New Member


    I just joined this site because I saw this thread, Ive got one of those coins and was just wondering assuming its the real thing what would be the approximate value? (mine is good condition)

    Hope you can help
    Thanks Harry

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Howdy Harry - Welcome to the Forum !!

    It depends on so many things - it's hard to say. But catalog values range from $80 in VG to $600 in XF.
  9. jody526

    jody526 New Member

    Welcome donnylad.
    Welcome Harry.
    Glad you could join us.
  10. Harry

    Harry New Member

    Thanks for the welcome guys, Ive only ever collected coins as a kid, my parents and grandparents used to give them to me after thier trips to europe, unfortunately I never really looked after them & hadnt seen them in over twenty years. Recently I was doing some cleaning up in the garage and found them in a big old plastic container, theres heaps of coins in there from all over the world ranging from the 1700s to 1980. I know nothing about collectors coins but I think Ive found the site that could help me identify them all.(I'm going to be asking you guys a lot of questions) So I thank you in advance.

    First question: How do I go about cleanig them?, they are made from all different metals, some are gold some silver, bronze,copper etc, can I use a solvent or would that be to rough on them. I have access to an Ultrasonic Cleaner, can I use that? if so what kind of solution do I use with it?

    Hope you can help

  11. National dealer

    National dealer New Member

    Well Harry,

    Welcome to the forum. We get this question a lot, and probably always will :) It is recommended throughout the hobby that you do not clean coins. This only damages the surfaces of the coin, and reduces the value. Before anything, let the other members here help you identify the coins. Post photos of each one, and give very detailed descriptions. There are quite a few here that are very good at identifying coins from around the world. After they have an ID, then you will have a better idea of what to do with them. I hope that helps.
  12. Harry

    Harry New Member

    Thanks mate, I'll get cracking on posting some descriptions and I'll have to resist the urge to clean them.
  13. mxevans

    mxevans New Member

    I just came to this site as a result of a Google search, when I was trying to find some information about a coin that sounds *just like* the one described here.
    Strangely, I was also brought up in the Doncaster area (about 8 miles out on the way to Wakefield). I wonder if my coin originally came from the same dealer ?
    It is in incredibly good condition (if it's real). From reading the rest of this thread, however, I suspect that I've got one of the modern replicas.
    How can I tell for sure ?
    rgds to all,
  14. Ian

    Ian Coin Collector

    One way is to weigh it.

    The real McCoy weighs in at 3.4909 grams. Ever so slightly less if in a `worn' state. I suspect your one will weigh in under 3 grams.
  15. mxevans

    mxevans New Member

    Some more information on the 1752 Fakes, resurrected from a newsletter at :

    ===== note starts here ========

    A correspondent from Belgium has recently requested information from the searchable archives about that old 'Austrian Ducat' dated 1752 with the legend 'TU DOMINE SPES MEA' on the reverse.

    Unfortunately, the records with the explanatory article had been deleted from this archival area as they were over 5 years old, so it was a case of resurrecting the original hard-copy newsletter. This extract is from the 'Tasmanian Numismatist' April 1996.


    'Some time ago a correspondent to the 'Australian Coin Review' (now incorporated into the 'Australasian Coin & Banknote Magazine') mentioned having found, what appeared to be, an unlisted Austrian Ducat dated 1752 bearing the legend 'FRANC. D.G. R.I.S. A. GER. IER. REX.' with the portrait of Francis of Lorraine on the obverse and the legend 'TU DOMINE SPES MEA' on the reverse. It was very similar but 'not quite right' in comparison to others of that time period.

    The 'coin' was in fact manufactured and distributed on behalf of the 'READERS DIGEST' organisation some 12 years ago as a promotional gimmick, and samples regularly turn up on market stalls in both 'gold' and 'silver' finishes.

    These 'coins' usually have a dark chemical reaction spot in the centre where they had been attached with an adhesive glue to a 'Reader's Digest' give-away sheet.' - April 1996.

    With replica items like this it is no wonder that the public can be fooled.

    I still have a 'silver' sample of the base metal 'ducat' and, prior the time the original article was researched and prepared, I also thought I had something that might be 'rare' as it was not listed in any publication.

    I was also disappointed, as the recent correspondent would have been, when advised of its rather mundane history.

    The reasonably well-made 'coin' has a measurement of 20mm. and weighs less that 2 grms. - a lot lighter than the genuine article - but, of course, it is now an interesting numismatic item of some small note in its own right - if collectors are aware and accept it for what it is.

    =======note ends here=======

    Interestingly, my example doesn't have any obvious "dark chemical reaction spot in the centre"


  16. mxevans

    mxevans New Member

    Thanks Ian,

    once I can get access to an accurate scale, I'll weigh the "coin" and see what happens.
    I suspect it will turn out to be a bit light, because (subjectively) it is quite a bit lighter than a 1847 Victoria gold coin (half-sov ?) that is only slightly larger (about 21.5mm across, compared to 19.5mm, and a bit thicker).

    BTW, interesting to see you're based in Kirkcaldy. I spent many cold and wet hours in the scrap yards of Kirkcaldy in the 70s helping a friend to find parts for his Austin A30 when we were students at St Andrews.

    Thanks again for your help.


  17. Aidan Work

    Aidan Work New Member

    I also have seen a lot of those brass pieces with the date 1752.They are definitely fakes.Reader's Digest was giving them away as part of a promotion many years ago.
  18. Ian

    Ian Coin Collector

    The half sovereign weighs in at 3.994 grams, so it is indeed slightly heavier than a genuine 1752 ducat coin anyway.

    Ah...the `scrappies'. That place of last resort but bountiful resource when funds are low or when parts are scarce and needs must.....

    Kirkcaldy does have it's finer parts though (honest), but I can imagine that hours of clambering over old motors in the freezing cold is most unlikely to endear you to the place ;-)
  19. sylvester

    sylvester New Member

    I've got one without a date (everything else is the same) amusingly bought from a dealer in Rotherham... or actually i'm lying i think he might have given me the coin free of charge (he said he didn't know what it was so i could have it). He knew it was fake that much i'm certain, i didn't at first but i really should have noticed it sooner, firstly no one gives away gold coins to people and secondly it is magnetic too.

    I think mine is not actually a forgery but rather more an imitation gaming token.
  20. Roddus

    Roddus New Member

    Franc.D.G.R.I.S A.CER.IER.REX

    Hi There,
    I too, have 2 of these such coins. Picked them up in a second hand store about 7 years ago. Was intrigued to find out that they could be gold plated of sort. I was going to scan them but alas the scanner is faulty. So when I get it fixed I will send the pictures through.


  21. sylvester

    sylvester New Member

    It's doubtful they usually look more brass.

    Just out of interest are they magnetic?
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