Auctions are a double edged sword.

There it is! The gready hoarders with nothing better to do than buy coins out from under Detecto have returned!! Somethings never change..

This is what an AUCTION IS!!! Those with the cash can buy all they wish.. its not handout for Detecto day. If you do not like it, dont go...

Could have fooled me.



Words from a "wise" man...

 

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If you are in a sellers market maybe you need to be doing the selling.

If people are grossly overpaying, here is what you do, consign your coin collection to the auction, the greedy horders will buy it all at inflated prices, have a bunch of new coin collectors come to the auction so they will buy them for high prices to discourage them.

Then take your profits to your local B&M where you can buy coins cheaper than at auctions, and stock up.

 

I like that comment, I don't think I know Detecto, but the comment was positive. :smile

As an antique dealer, I stayed away from "the click" of other dealers who were in the back of the local estate auctions.
They would be in Cahoots with the auctioneer who saw the same dealers at every auction and bid up the collecting public and drop out when the auction lot got a high enough bid for the auctioneer.
On the other hand, if the dealers won, the split up the costs and consigned those items in local antique shops or they could keep them themselves as sell them in their own shop.
But they never bid up each other, they only bid against the non dealing public and took what was a great bargain or let the public drive up and compete against themselves.

They called it "Pooling" and it sure is against the law, whether you are a dealer or not but it is a tough job for people to prove that it goes on.
I detested the dealers who were in the pool, and I did not buy from their shops or consignment booths.

If I want something, I look over the lots before the auctions start, I jot down what I want and I have a top price I will pay written next to it.
I don't dare let anyone see what I wrote down. I hold that little tablet like a poker hand. I have a total amount of money I think I will spend and most times when I hit my total, I try to say that's it, I'm outta here, unless stuff is going so cheap I have to stay to the end and get all I can afford. I take what I get and forget about the rest. There is an endless supply of stuff out there. Patience is necessary.

 

Right. So if just you and a few other people CHEAT, it won't ruin the seller.

Just the same way that if only a few people shoplift, it won't put an LCS out of business.

Or if only a few people embezzle from their employer, it won't make too much of a difference in the bottom line.

Or if just a few sellers at your local auction use shills... no, wait! BURN THE FIENDS!

 

What I don't understand is...if you can get the same coins of equal quality cheaper somewhere else, why are you even going to the auctions. The key to collecting is to assemble a set that you enjoy and can be proud of. It doesn't matter what others do. So, if these auctions aren't working out...then go elsewhere.

 

As much as I've seen the pooling that you describe go on, it works the other way too. Maybe it's a product of me going to so many auctions, but many of the dealers I know will stop bidding on an item if they know that the person bidding is doing so for their personal collection. I know that this is not the way that many dealers operate, but it does happen. It is always a good idea to know as many dealers that you can.

 

I don't wish to give grief to young Detecto but his puerile, almost infantile outlook on life and his willfully stubborn refusal to take the advice of those who know better, invites abuse.
I'm done with him and will no longer respond to any more of his juvenile complaints about how the world is unfair, people are conspiring against him, eBay is a ripoff and the like.
If he wants to post threads that are actually numismatic in nature, that's a different story but, based on his track record, I don't foresee that happening any time soon.

 

Two questions for you.

1. How old are you that "it never used to be that way"
2. What is fair market value to you?

 

The pool is a group of maybe 5 to 10 dealers that I am remembering that I stayed clear from. I knew a hundred good dealers or more in my time so those bad eggs are the minority. Sort of like flies in a kitchen.
Yes I understand that it could work the other way too in favor of the general bidding at an auction.
I have seen the auctioneers, who are sometimes just as guilty, look to the back of the room and call one of those numbers of the pool even if they weren't bidding to drive up a bid.
I kid you not, and I bet other oldtimers who have seen a lot of auctions have seen this happen a time or two themselves.
Some auctioneers, not all, but some are not very far up on the food chain either.

 

I am an Auctioneer here in North Carolina and Detecto, I can only shake my head and laugh. As some others have said, that is Collusion and in North Carolina if you are caught doing that, it is illegal. It is very hard to prove, so more than likely if you are thought to be doing it, you will be asked to leave and not welcomed back. I would also pass your information around to other auction houses. I also attend MANY auctions and usually go home empty handed, unless it is something that I want for my(my wife's really) personal collection. I have run into other auctioneers that are "dirty" as I like to call it and will not go back to their auctions. It happens on both sides of the fence and neither is right.

 

Detecto: Do you play online poker and talk to your buddies at the same time on the phone who are playing at the same virtual table ?

Or maybe play live poker in a casino and have some signals set up in advance, like if I clean my glasses with my T-shirt, I have a full house, but If I scratch behind my left ear, I'm bluffing ?

Collusion is unethical.

 

That would be ideas, not ideals !

 

If you had ideals, you'd have ethics and would not basically try to scam innocent people and collude with others of low conscience.

 

I could not read the OP's posts (thank goodness for the Ignore feature) but I got the gist of this thread from reading quotes from his posts and others' replies. It sure sounds to me like the "greedy hoarders" complaint had been resurrected. The world is so unfair to some people. Wahh!!

http://www.cointalk.com/t197848/

 

Detecto, what heinous sin did you commit during a past life makes
you feel the need to subject yourself to such self-torture in this life?

There is a ridiculously simple solution to your problem with auctions: don't go!

 

A number of times I've sworn to stay away from any of Detecto's threads, but it's like watching a train wreck, you just can't turn away.

 

There are a number of tactics that can be used to win auctions (whether there is collusion or not).

#1-If you see a coin that you're willing to spend $30 and the auctioneer gets an opening bid of $2 and everybody is bumping it buy a dollar, you step in and call out $20 or $25 as your first bid. Sometimes that throws the other bidders off guard and they go silent.

#2-Bid till you win on the item before your item comes up to establish a sense that you will spend stupid money on anything you bid on. When your item comes up sometimes no one will bother bidding. You take the average paid on the two items and you'll find you've gotten a good deal on both.

If I'm a dealer at auction, I don't look at the price that I paid for each individual item, I average out the cost over all the items I've won. At "sealed boxes" sales, I buy several because I know there's going to be garbage in some but treasures (hopefully) in the others. If I paid $2 for some and $10 for others, I average out the price per box. So in fact, I've actually paid $4 per box. I can generally recoup my investment even on the garbage boxes which usually have something I can sell for the averaged price I paid.

I've been going to auctions for over 40 years. Sometimes, I've gone home empty handed (c'est la vie). Other times I've had to hire someone with a truck because I won almost everything I bid on.

People go to auctions with the intent of winning something. What's the point of winning if you overpay?

If you don't like the way auctions work, don't go.

 

An auction is an open marketplace. It's run by the Golden Rule. Who ever has the gold ...rules. You have to pay to play and if you can't compete, you go home empty. Life is not fair and no one gets their fair share in the open market place. Life is not for the timid. If you earn the money, you have the right to spend it on anything you want. It's not a charity auction. Sad life lessons ..but it's the way competition and the free market works. You wish for a welfare state but that's not reality. You get what you earn.

 

I attend a local coin auction consistent of 10,000 wheat pennies, 5,000 buffalo nickels and 2,500 silver quarters. A rich hoarder earned $10,000 to spend on coins, Detecto earned $1,000, I earned $100, and another 1,000 people have earned $1 each.

Question: What is my fair share of coins?

It is and honest question, Detecto. I actually enjoy your threads for the most part and the always seem to get a lot of attention, both positive and negative. I am just not with you on this fair share business