Auction returns?

IMHO, get your money back!!!!!

 

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Thanks for your honest opinion, Pete. Appreciate it

 

The chalky appearance inside the chip suggests embrittlement. Handle with care if removed from the slab!

 

In my opinion, broad field smoothing or tooling should always be mentioned, especially on silver coins. In this case, the "smoothing" is probably cleaning marks but nevertheless, it is artificial improvement and you will see it every time you look at the coin in your collection. I have returned silver coins for the same reason, even one I bought at a coin show that had been toned over to hide the cleaning marks. It was my fault, I didn't look at the coin under a loupe but the lighting at the coin show also hid the directional marks. The dealer said he didn't agree with my assessment but accepted the return with no further comment. Not all dealers are willing to do so but most will.

 

As far as the edge chip, goes, I don't think it affects the value of the coin. The cleaning marks do.

 

@Steelers72 I found your coin so I know the auction house from which you purchased it and I can absolutely vouch for their integrity. I recently returned a coin to them that I bought in a 2018 auction. Recent scholarship had cast doubt on the dies of the silver coin as being authentic mint products if not modern forgeries. This led me to measure the specific gravity and found the SG to be quite low for an issue that was otherwise typically near pure silver, suggesting a plated coin. I sent a polite email and referenced my findings and the scholarship. They had me return the coin for re-evaluation. Ultimately they said they did not "necessarily" agree with my assessment but gave me a full refund anyway because I was not satisfied.

 

Thanks for all your insight, this is more reassuring. I honestly did not want to return at first like mentioned in op in order to keep a good relationship.
I’ve heard stories of customers being banned from houses after a return, and I dont want that. Like you said, the abrasions are something I’d see and be bothered by since they weren’t noted as such.
I feel like having the TPG opinion will just solidify my case and make it a smoother return since it’s not just my own assessment that the surfaces look funky

 

Hello, I explained the situation with attached pics. He replied that he needed to check the coin, so I shipped it to him. After a couple of weeks he wrote me that for him the coin was good, but he agreed to refund it. After that, I have never seen the coin in any auction. It was an antoninianus of about 2000 usd.

 

Update. The company responded the below:

“According to § 10 “Handling with Grading-Companies” of our Auction Terms and Conditions: “We do not accept any responsibility for acceptance by the so- called Grading-Companies nor for a similar assessment of the condition of goods. Complaints based on a different quality assessment by a Grading-Company do not entitle the buyer to rescind from the purchase transaction...”


Nevertheless, we are of course prepared to check the coin again for you, but we are sure that you will understand that, in order to be able to conduct further investigations, we will need the piece without the plastic holder.”


I am drafting an email showing more of my own pictures out of the slab, and reiterating that I would have not bid on this coin if the smoothing was noted accurately

 

And they will undoubtedly respond that they can't properly check the coin to confirm the smoothing unless you send it back to them after removing it from the slab. (It's not as if you can ever sell it in that slab anyway.)

 

Yes, removing from the slab is a non-issue for me. I had it looked at to confirm my own suspicions. Thought having a third party validation would be no question return as is the case with the other prominent auction houses I deal with

 

I can see all sort of surface issue on this coin from the auction photo. Whether there is smoothing or just bad cleaning scratches, I don’t know. I’m sorry you are disappointed with it and can understand why. I also don’t think NGC is helpful in your decision making as they’ve pretty much ruined the coin in your mind (surely you could have decided if you like the coin or not without their opinion).

There is a tray for every coin in this hobby. Even this one.

It probably could have been disclosed, but then again, you take a certain risk when bidding without actually looking at the coin in hand or having an agent do the same. I think in the final analysis there is enough responsibility to go around in this situation.

 

Agree. I think the issue for me is calling it fine toning, and no mention of the surface condition. I am not the best at analyzing pics but I am certain if better pictures were used (like my iphone quality), it would have shown the damages better. The combination of poor pictures, no description makes one feel sleighted.

 

I get it and feel for you. I have made the same mistake on far grander scales than this. I promise you.

Whether or not you get a refund, take it as a lesson. If you are confident of the coin you can bid like a maniac (I represent this remark at times too!). But if you are not, either get a rep to view it (maybe an extra 5%) or don’t bid. Or bid knowing you are taking a chance and may very well have to eat the problem.

This is the way. There is no shortcut.

C

 

I don't think the coin should be returned or that the auctioneer has any obligation. The surface issues are subjective and an auction is not an approval sale - you view the pictures and decide. Only if there is an issue plainly not visible in the picture such as edge issues or evidence of being a fake (requiring comparison coins) can a coin be returned. Most auctioneers terms say coins can only be returned for authenticity reasons.

If you don't like the slabbed grade, break it outta the slab. Looks a pleasant coin despite opinion of one NGC person.

Hit the bid button in an auction and you've entered a binding contract not dependent on subjective condition views, and with no returns allowed except for authenticity

 

Interesting thread.

Rather than advise you on whether to ignore the faults pointed out by NGC or keep trying for a refund with the auction house, I realise how disappointing it must be to win a coin that looked better online than in-hand. Personally I would have never noticed the "smoothing" if it was not pointed out to me. Especially since (as others have pointed out) this is silver and not something I particularly look for like I do with my bronzes.

Current world affairs does make it difficult for even a dedicated collector to inspect high value coins in-hand. Which I would guess have made many uneasy over the last year. I recommend asking for videos of the coins you're interested in beforehand. This has been especially helpful due to the varying quality of photography amongst different dealers. I've personally avoided certain "landmines" thanks to this, and I know many others have as well. Most higher-end auction houses (like the one that offered this coin) does this regularly.

Good luck

 

Reputable auction houses should disclose every piece of information on a coin. I don’t know which auction house sold this coin and I am in no way discrediting it’s reputation, but given the consensus in this thread seems to be “it is smoothed, but not terribly so” I think it should have been disclosed. Given that it wasn’t, the auction house should reimburse for it. To me it’s pretty simple in that regard: if a reasonable auction house would call this smoothing, and a reasonable auction house doesn’t disclose it, they’re misleading the buyer. Whether this coin fits that bill, I cannot say myself as I am an extreme novice, so I’m just going off what other CT’ers are saying.

 

Your photos do not show what I call smoothing. I would have expected something more along the line of scratches. I believe it is appropriate to downgrade a coin more for man made, modern defects than for normal circulation defects. These look like amateur cleaning and polishing to me. Return it and stop bidding on coins that seller offers that have any question about surfaces. I'd stop bidding on them altogether but people consider that overreacting. If they take it back, I would expect it to be relisted without more description and sold for more than you paid. They will have no problem finding a buyer who will not look at the coin and be glad they won something in the current market. When (if?) they do that, you will know you are correct to walk away from their sales. On the other hand, auctions are not approval sales. You might be better off paying a few percent to someone attending the sale to represent you when buying coins in this bracket. What is the going rate? With Covid, is it even possible to find auction representatives?

 

I'm not a novice - 40 years collecting pretty high end coins.

Every coin has been cleaned - when silver coins come out of the ground they are typically covered in a very rough black pitted coating called find patina. The cleaning may be more or less vigorous and if very vigorous may amount to some smoothing but thats both common and subjective. I find the OP coin to be pleasant and all surface issues seem to be visible from the photo. I wouldn't have slabbed it. I wouldn't have attempted to return it as I see no reason, considering it was bought from a photo, and I wouldn't diss the auctioneers description. See nothing really they had to disclose. "For condition, please look at the photo" maybe as they say in eBay ads.

What really beats me in this thread is why the discussion isnt about the Grand Canyon sized fissure. Now that detracts from the coin. But also clearly visible.

I'm actually ok with the surfaces and suspect a relative junior in NGC graded it and just wasnt sure. And I'm ok both with the auction description and their "no return" response. They are right. Sometimes you buy a coin and don't like it, and you live with it. So sell it. Don't involve NGC.

 

I’ve seen this pop up a few times in this thread and I have to ask: why shouldn’t they be? When I go to the butcher I don’t research whether the meat is safe to consume, I trust it because 1) I know my local shop is reputable and 2) we have government agencies to ensure it’s safety. Given the lack of #2 (although maybe NGC could be considered something like a GA), auction houses should strive to act as both ends of the coin. I, as a buyer, shouldn’t have to hire someone to investigate the coin further. I should be able to rely on the auction house to disclose all relevant pieces of info, via photos & text. If it doesn’t, and it’s reasonable for them to have known and disclosed a pertinent piece of info, well they shouldn’t be in business. Not directing this statement at the OP auction house or any in particular.