Auction returns?

completely plausible it was made during the minting process. I am more concerned that the original auction pictures blended both the chip and the smoothing & didnt note either of them.
If they were noted, fair game. The final hammer price would’ve certainly reflected it as well

They noted the planchet crack, which is typical for this particular type; and I find to be an attractive quality not a flaw

 

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Where exactly on the coin is the edge chip you're referring to? I see nothing out of the ordinary, and nothing that the dealer should have expressly disclosed. If I were you I wouldn't even mention the chip; doing so will make you seem unreasonable and reduce your credibility. Instead, I would focus on the smoothing, and the scratches resulting from it.

(Actually, if I were you I would immediately take it out of the slab, and be perfectly happy with keeping the coin. I never think about resale value, because I never plan to sell. But I realize that you don't want to do that.)

 

I returned some coins to Solidus Numismatik without any issue. They were very pleasant. I can't say the same with Numismatik Naumann. I returned one coin and they banned me.

 

I think that I am safe in saying that most ancient coins have been cleaned or worked on to a point. The pieces that have not been messed with or even make Mint State are highly unusual. The question is how badly has this coin been messed with and how obvious is it?

The obverse has what appears to brush marks from about 3 to 6 k. It's there, but it's not terrible. So far as clip goes, that comes with the territory. These coins are not of modern production and planchet preparation was not to modern standards, LOL. The brushing might bug me a little, but it depends upon what you paid and how scarce the coin is. Will you find a better one a year from now or ten years for now? Since I don't know this series, I'll have to leave that up to you.

They can't all be like this Augustus Caesar which still has a fair amount of mint luster. This coin was not cheap.

 

I mentioned before earlier on , I am more concerned with the smoothing than the edge chip. “Fine toning”=/= smoothing.

The chip is another thing to add onto the disappointment. The pictures/description really didnt show it well enough. In hand it’s more prominent and looks more along the lines of modern damage than ancient ..but tough to prove in any event.

I honestly dont think I am being unreasonable at all. A few others in this thread can see the harsh smoothing and the original auction pictures/description do not note it.

With regard to credibility, I was credible enough to have paid their invoice in full promptly with no issues; with plenty of solid references & dealings throughout the numismatic hobby. I also paid for a third party to verify the damage, and I am not asking to be refunded that amount.

 

nice coin, and yes no one expects perfection for a 2100 year old coin.

I would have not paid what I paid if the description mentioned smoothing or if the pictures were like my iphone’s pictures, which can clearly show the harsh smoothing.

Auction record for this same type , with smoothing noted properly was about 1/3rd of the price paid.

 

I am sorry to hear abour Naumann…i think a customer should be entitled to a refund for a reasonable reason. As evident by this thread, “reasonable” is a topic of debate

 

I really don't see why you hesitate so much. It's not your fault that the condition of the coin was not properly described and the photo was not clear enough either. If you don't contact the auctioneer you will never know. Let them refuse the return first and then we can discuss about additional options...

 

I didn't say that your concern about the smoothing is unreasonable. I said that complaining about the chip in addition to the smoothing -- especially given that the smoothing/surface is the only issue mentioned by NGC -- could make you seem unreasonable. I learned decades ago that you don't strengthen an already-strong argument by adding a weak argument on top of it. The kitchen-sink approach rarely works. Instead, it's far wiser in a situation like this to focus exclusively on the strong argument.

You can take my advice or not, of course. It's just my opinion, and I don't have the coin in front of me. Nor am I remotely an expert in such issues. (As mentioned above, smoothing is not even a question that often comes up with silver coins as opposed to bronze coins.) But I did practice law for almost 40 years -- as a litigator specializing, in part, in commercial disputes -- and I would like to think that I generally have good instincts about what's a strong argument and what isn't.

 

The ngc slab says "edge chip"

 

This is almost exactly what I was going to reply as well. Simple is better.

In your position -- not wanting the coin -- I would simply email the auction house and include all three pictures: their own picture of the original listing, the NGC slab with the "smoothing" comment, and finally your picture of the coin's reverse that clearly illustrates the abrasions and scrapes that are NOT visible in their picture. (You might consider including the picture of the edge chip that is noted by NGC but I think that's unnecessary -- the smoothing would have been sufficient for you not to bid on the coin.)

Your email should state that the coin's condition wasn't fully represented by either the auction picture or written description. You should further state that their picture and description of the coin omits this information that is material to your decision, and if known to you, you would not have bid on the coin.

After that, simply ask them for a full refund of all your costs including shipping.

 

I see what you’re saying. I bet you have loads of experiences. I think the tpg opinion + my pictures gives me a strong case here.

Thank you, and yes that’s what I sent them the other day. Waiting on a reply, and just explaining my thought process here in case any one else had a similar situation before. Rather learn from past experiences than repeat them myself

i think it’s obvious the auction pics didn’t tell the full story. Didnt think it would be too much of a debate, that’s one of the reasons I originally didnt include a pic of the coin in the OP. I wanted to give the auction house a fair chance to make it right; also did not want to get into the whole slabbing debate that has occurred here a lot.

 

Contacted them the other day! I just respond to everyone’s posts to engage in dialogue and hear all sides.

 

My apologies. But my opinion that the OP should focus on the smoothing remains the same.

 

I sent a tetradrachm back to Roma a year or so as a possible fourré. There was one area that I was suspicious about, but wasn't sure, since the area in question did not have clear telltale silver plating with a break showing a copper core, as is often the case with these coins. So I wasn't sending back as a return request, but more as a "please take another look at it" request.

They responded that the coin was not a fourré. The area in question was one that had dark toning. So, the coin was returned to me. Case closed. That's okay with me and I am happy with this coin.

 

Thanks for sharing, glad your situation was resolved. I did not want to return for only my own suspicions, so that’s why I had a third party take a look at it. Once the TPG confirmed what I saw as smoothing, that’s when I decided to initiate a return. Helps when two sides including a third party see the same thing

 

One other option, or arrow in your quiver, to to ask for a price reduction.

I was the second highest bidder in an auction a few years ago. After the close of the auction I was notified by the auction company that the high bidder refused to accept the coin because it was smoothed, something that was not mentioned in the lot's description. They asked me if I would buy the coin at a price below what bid and since it is a rare coin I accepted the offer.

Now your case is different from what I experienced, but would you be happy with the coin at a lower price? I am not familiar with this type; I don't really know how rare it is. If you work out something like this, and you have a very good case, the question is then, if they say okay, would you be happy with this type of resolution? If not, then return it for a full refund.

 

Is the edge chip shiny? Modern?

 

Smart thought process. It is a desirable type, otherwise beautiful coin, but smoothing definitely would affect the price if it was noted. To not note the field abrasions, given how apparent they are in hand, is not being honest or perhaps an oversight on the seller’s part. I’d probably be willing to pay no more than $1000 for this example if I had known of the damages; & only that much because the portraits are very nice for the type. At more than 3x that amount & customs fees, I expected a coin as advertised & described - which i interpreted as problem free imo.

 

It’s white/offwhite. Hard to tell. Im leaning more towards modern as opposed to ancient. Id assume over thousands of years, dirt and debris would have filled it in or darkened it. Could very well been during the minting process though. It’s sharp, thought it was a flan flaw at first. The auction picture captured it differently; made it look the same color as the rest of the coin so I didnt notice it much at all. In hand, def is more apparent.

Again, it definitely doesnt bother me as much as the surfaces which you can see here look wire brushed