Attribution Quiz #2 - Victor Clark

Several CT members sent me coins from their collections to help me learn how to determine the attribution of ancients. This is one of the coins that Victor Clark sent to me. As I try to attribute the coins I am sure I will make mistakes or omissions. I will post them as I accomplish them and I hope our CT experts will chime in and correct my errors. Thank you Victor!!

Here is my tentative attribution of the coin:

It's a "Campgate."

We call these coins "campgates" but the reverses may not depict campgates. I believe the "signaling tower" theory. There's a good article about this in an old Celator (Vol 18, No. 1, January 2004), Campgate Bronzes and Roman Fire Signalling, Murray K. Dahm.
(Thanks to @TIF)

Obv:
CONSTAN - TINVS AVG
Head laureate, draped, cuirassed bust right
Constantine II, AD 327-328,
Bronze
3.4 grams
19.05 mm

Rev:
PROVIDEN TIAE AVG
campgate with two turrets, dot above right turret, ten layers, door handle or dot on door.
Mint Mark SMANTE in exergue
Mint: Antioch

Question: Has anyone seen one of these coins with a 10 layer campgate?
The rows vary on campgates, but yes I have seen 10 rows - Thanks to @Victor_Clark).

What about the dot above the right turret which I don't see on other campgate (or city gate) reverses?
The dot you are talking about is actually part of the turret and is on both of them. [The dot on the door] is definitely a dot, being used as a control mark. Dots appear frequently in many different places.
[T]he potentially confusing part though.. [a dot] may not be a control mark; but a centering mark. I have a page about these-- http://www.constantinethegreatcoins.com/dots/
(Thanks to @Victor_Clark)

These issues make me think *RIC:505 attribution which is the closest, is not correct.

Thank you!

 

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Constantine I

A.D. 326- 327

CONSTAN-TINVS AVG; laureate head right.

PROVIDEN-TIAE AVGG; camp gate, two turrets, no doors, star above; • in doorway

In ex. SMANTE

RIC VII Antioch 71


the rows vary on campgates, but yes I have seen 10 rows (see above)

the dot you are talking about is actually part of the turret and is on both of them

 

CONSTANTINE II
AE3 Follis
OBVERSE: CONSTANTINVS IVN NOB C - Laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust left
REVERSE: PROVIDENTIAE CAESS - Campgate with two towers, 10 rows and star above. SMANTB in ex.
Struck at Antioch, 325-335 AD
2.81g, 18mm
RIC VII 65


CONSTANTINE II
AE Follis
OBVERSE: CONSTANTINVS IVN NOB C, laureate head right
REVERSE: PROVIDENTIAE CAESS, campgate with two turrets, star above, eSIS(double crescent) in ex.
Struck at Siscia 328-29 AD
2.9g, 20mm
RIC VII 216

 

I see little decorative knobs on top of the turrets!! Oh Constantine I. But really, that looks just like a door knob or knocker. But I'll refer to it as a dot. Thank you, again, Victor

 

Thank you, Bing. I count, like 14 'layers' in the campgate in the lower coin. I did see reference to campgate with up to 12 by another mint (something with an "A" but not Antioch).

That top coin has a delicious color.

BTW, I will be going back over all your posts to carefully read and compare and see where I have gone wrong and to compare with the examples you posted. Thank you all so much. I can't tell you how tired my eyes are right now.

 

That is a fantastic gift you got from Victor Clark. I've always been a big fan of campgates, yet surprisingly I still don't have one. I may have to gift myself one for my b-day in August.

 

LooLll, Sallent - I see how you did that! I love this campgate coin. It's so cool and I love that it has many 'layers.'

 

It's definitely a dot, being used as a control mark. Dots appear frequently in many different places. A few examples...the Thessalonica campgate below has a dot in the right field.



Constantine I
A.D. 326- 328
CONSTAN-TINVS AVG; laureate head.
PROVIDEN-TIAE AVGG; camp gate with two turrets and star between them, • in right field.
in ex. SMTSB
RIC VII Thessalonica 153


The Siscia campgate below has two dots in the mintmark and a bunch of dots in the top and bottom row of the campgate, which are merely decorative.




Constantine I
A.D. 326- 327
CONSTAN-TINVS AVG; Laureate head right.
PROVIDEN-TIAE AVGG; camp gate, two turrets, no doors, star above.
in ex. • BSIS •
RIC VII Siscia 200


This example from London has a dot in the bottom of the doorway and a dot in the brick above the doorway.



Constantine I
A.D. 324-5
CONSTANT-INVS AVG; Laureate bust
PROVIDEN-TIAE AVGG; camp gate with two turrets and star between them, dot in bottom of doorway.
in ex. PLON
RIC VII London 293 var.



This is the potentially confusing part though...the dot above the arch is not a control mark; but a centering mark. I have a page about these-- http://www.constantinethegreatcoins.com/dots/

 

Thank you @Victor_Clark. Something my brain will enjoy thinking about.

 

A neat coin

 

Fantastic, @LaCointessa! What a nice gift, and good job with the attribution

A couple of years ago I bought a group lot containing many campgates. Here's one of the better coins from that group:


Constantine I, RIC VII Antioch 84, SMANTE

...

This was discussed recently but I'll post it again here: We call these coins "campgates" but the reverses may not depict campgates. I believe the "signaling tower" theory.

There's a good article about this in an old Celator (Vol 18, No. 1, January 2004), Campgate Bronzes and Roman Fire Signalling, Murray K. Dahm.

 

Congrats on adding that sweet campgate, LaCointessa

Constantine II open door campgate follis
Minted 325-326
Diameter: 19.0 x 20.9 mm
Weight: 3.1 grams
Obverse: Constantine II right, CONSTANTINVS IVN NOB C
Reverse: 12 row campgate with open doors, 4 turrets and star above, VIRTVS CAESS, TA(crescent)RL in exergue
Reference: RIC VII:294 for Arles

 

That's such a great coin!!

I bought that group lot of campgates in part because the picture suggested they had a lot of silvering and I didn't have any campgates or any LRBs with retained silvering. Everyone always says "ooh, it has some of the silvering" so I thought the silvering would be a good thing.

Not to disparage other people's taste, but after seeing the coins, I decided I don't like silvering-- at least not on most of the coins in the lot I bought. Perhaps if it were pristine, yeah... but when it is patchy it can camouflage the coin's details even if the relief is well-preserved.

 

@TIF - Thank you for your feedback, information about the history behind the name 'campgates' and for posting yours. This one you posted has 12 'layers!" And it is beautiful.

@Victor_Clark - I must examine my coins and photographs of ancients much closer. I did not at first see that dot above the door in the third coin, above. I suppose I will forever ask myself "why this dot and why here?" I'll understand a centered dot. But a way off-centered dot in the field, when the maker of the coin could have used the same place the 'turret ornament' would be placed, will probably always confound me just a wee bit.

@lordmarcovan - I loooove that sandy color and contrast, too! I fell in love with Bing's coin. I love the silvery one as well. I wonder if I can take better photographs. I'll see if I can. Probably should shoot the lighter/silvery ones against a black background. I'll be more careful to take better photographs in the future. (Sorry, Victor!).

"Puke-splashed?" You got the first giggle out of me this morning (as well as my first "Ewwwww!). Thank you!

@stevex6 - Wow! 12 "layers" - Cool! And 4 turrets! Open doors!!
(I am impressed by your campgate). I would feel very safe and secure behind those gates! And it looks like there are many dots on the interior side of your doors - but I can't see it closer up. Amazing campgate. Thank you for posting it!

 

Great campgate @LaCointessa :

I only have one to offer:

RI Crispus 317-326 CE AE Folles Caesar in Trier Campgate - Heraclea mint

 

Arles campgates can be frequently found with 12 layers





the doors from Arles campgates also have a great deal of variety

below is a picture from Bruun's “The Constantinian Coinage of Arelate”




I believe that the most interesting campgates can be found from the Rome mint though.




Note that the turrets have windows. Regarding the signal tower versus campgate, I don't believe that it is necessarily always the same thing depicted and the two ideas are not mutually exclusive- a fortified campgate could have signal towers.