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In looking at die state descriptions in Breen, I suspect he has gotten the order wrong. The example I just purchased has the weakened ribbon loops of Die State V due to regrinding. It also has the Large CUD at E(D) and the Heavy clash marks in the Left Wreath, die failure above S(T) and the Bulge below ON is heavy as in VI.

But both examples of Vi and VII do not show the weakened ribbon loops or the failure above S(T), but show the heavy clash of the dentils above S(T). They also show a lighter CUD at E(D) than V.

I think the more likely sequence is I, II, III, IV, VI, VII, V with some diagnostics for VI and VII being lost upon the regrinding.

Noyes likewise shows the reground reverse as C followed by D with full ribbon loops. But in Noyes, C appears to have less bulging at the fraction. But I think it is due to it's higher grade rather than less bulging. Noyes only list three Reverse Die States, B C and D. I think they their sequence would be B, D and C. I just can't see clash marks and Ribbon loops reappearing after being ground down.

Anyway, I'm intrigued with the numismatics of this particular variety.

 

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I just picked up this one: I'm a sucker for damaged coins with Great Detail, particularly sharp dentilation.



I'm pretty sure it's a terminal die state as well.

 

S-145 and I agree it does look like the terminal stage.

 

I just received a S-121 and checked the edge to see if it was gripped. It had quite a few dings, but nothing which I recognized as the normal pattern of verticle grip marks. But I did see what looks like traces of light diagonal lines.

I'd like to see if it matches up with edge V called Partly Reeded Edge. Since this is usually associated with varieties minted in 1798, if confirmed, this could indicate the first three obverses dated 1797 and the first reverse may have actually been used later than thought, perhaps in 1798.

But I need someone with a good image of that edge. If anyone can help, please let me know.

 

This is a common S-257 in a lower grade I just picked up, but I think it may be the Later Die State Breen speculated might exist after V.

"V. Retained cud beginning on, and eventually obliterating STATES, later extending to OF, weakening 180 and the lower curls.

A later state may exist with a full cud on STATES OF."

Thoughts on whether this is a late stage of State V or State VI?

ps There is about a 10 degree rotation CCW.

 

I think your example clearly shows the break has extended over the top of OF. I have one that shows the crack through F fairly early on so the cud above makes perfect sense to me.

 

I'm trying new lighting on my entombed Coins. First is the Heritage Link to the coin purchased and then is my new attempt photographing the same coin. It's definitely better than the old lighting, but is it an improvement over the Heritage Image?


https://coins.ha.com/itm/large-cent...ybidspage-lotlinks-12202013&tab=MyBids-101116

 

This is an early Die state V S-201 reverse and two to the right are recent purchases which are either later stages of V or perhaps a new state VI or even VI and VII.

 

This isn't a rarity or unusual die state, but as I indicated earlier. I'm a sucker for damaged coins with great detail. It was located in the flowing hair section and was described as type 2 hair.

It definitely has environmental damage as well as physical damage, but I love the detail on an affordable coin. I particularly like the detail on the reverse of the extra long stems.

 

I just purchased the first of these two to go along with other I have and can't find when or where I acquired. By chance, they represent the two die states of this variety. Or do they?

Sheldon/Noyes Obverse Die 21

State A - Paired with Sheldon/Noyes Reverse T (States A [Breen Variety States I, II & III] & B [not described by Breen] on the S-143.)

Perfect but maybe clashed under chin.

State B - Paired with Sheldon/Noyes Reverse T (States C [not described by Breen] on the S-143.)

Two very light cracks from denticles centered over T. Light crack from base of R into hair below. Very light crack from second denticle above bust through field parallel to bust to throat near junction with bust.

State B - Paired with Sheldon/Noyes Reverse S (State A [Breen State I] on S-142.)

Two very light cracks from denticles centered over T. Light crack from base of R into hair below. Very light crack 2nd denticle above bust through field parallel to bust to throat near junction with bust. Clash mark under chin.



State B - Paired with Sheldon/Noyes Reverse S (State B [Breen State II] on S-142.)


Sheldon/Noyes Reverse Die T

Die State A - Paired with Sheldon/Noyes Obverse 11 (State E) on 1797 NC-7.

Perfect.

Die State A - Paired with Sheldon/Noyes Obverse 21 (State B) [Breen State I] on S-142.

Perfect.



Die State B - Paired with Sheldon/Noyes Obverse 21 (State B) [Breen State II] on S-142.

Heavy bulging STATES OF and upper left wreath.


Now to the question I posed initially. Does this holed example represent a new Obverse 21 State C rather than B?


Realizing there is damage at the hole and at 4-5 right of the bust, does the swelling at 2-3 in the obverse field indicate a new die state? Is that a crack from the hair above the JHF to the left foot of Y through the right side of Y to the rim above Y?

Here is a close-up of that area:



The Reverse looks like the swelling has extended across left wreath to include the entire central core.

ps Yes, I do see a scratch below that from the forehead to the rim. But that is PMD.

 

I just noticed the supplements in Volume 4 of Noyes. It includes a photo of my 1797 NC-5 with two holes and is listed as #22 61491 in the condition Census.


This is the one I picked up earlier this year, and while damaged in the hair, I believe is superior. I don't think I see it listed, but I could be wrong. There is no Photo of #10 listed as G6(F12) Ave/Minus though I'm not sure this would reach that lofty status.

 

This is a new purchase:



I believe there is enough there to identify the variety. I asked the seller if it had a plain edge or gripped and he responded it was plain.

Now I have to wait and see. It could be another mistake, an alteration, or a very rare coin. I've been there before with this same variety.

 

Good luck on the S-121a!

 

Off topic but I want to thank everyone here on Cointalk for all the help identifying some of my large cent collection. Marshall, you were so patient in answering my many questions.

The reason I'm writing here today is to inform you all that my eye disease has progressed to the point that I can no longer see enough detail to identify my large cents. With everyone's help, my collection of 1793 - 1839 are all attributed. About half of the 1840 - 1857 are attributed so I feel confident my family will be able to disburse them with confidence. I will still be a member here with the help of the text to speech applications available to me. Viewing the photos of your new finds will be fading away with time so I will cherish them until then.

Thanks again,
Moe

 

My prayers will include you as you face this challenge. I may not be too far behind you with a family history of diabetes related eye disease.

 

Alright. I've had my eye on this one all week. It's unattributed, but I've never seen an unattributed example of this variety until now.

 

I don't know if this would work for you, but I'm left using a digital microscope and I've connected my computer to a large screen TV. Even then, I use photo enhancement software to enlarge the detail areas if the photo has sufficient resolution.

This has extended my enjoyment of collecting after "giving up" and disposing of the bulk of my collection about 6 years ago when using only my eyes and typical coin loops became impossible.

I only have a handful of coins from my original collection left, so the rest are fairly recent acquisitions.

 

Thanks Marshall but my vision is so blurry now, magnification doesn't help. I'm down to less than 5% vision left and it's just the very center. Once I'm completely blind I can enroll in a clinical trial to have a chip implanted and camera to help restore some sight. Maybe one day they will have the Technology perfected that I will be able to attribute coins again .

 

Then I will pray for both you and your physicians. They are doing thing we couldn't imagine when we were younger.

 

This is my other NC twin set: One I discovered about a year ago as an undated type coin and the other has been purchased from a well known member of this board so recently that it hasn't arrived yet.