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Yes I agree some of these late state varieties are bringing insane prices in several cases. I was implying that on the 1800. Looking at the bidding, there were 3 people that wanted that coin way more than I did.

 

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Some people focus on the terminal dies states in their collection and I have paid a premium for them at times. But that went well over what I expected.

 

Which die state would you consider this S-202 to be in?

Going by Breen's book it would appear to be somewhere between V and VI, but the illustration in the book is not all that clear.

Thanks,

 

I get the thrill of the hunt as far as cherrypicking rare varieties (and apparently die states now) for cheap (which is what you two do, and what I try to do for resale), but what I don't get is what makes people pay so much more for a variety simply for the sake of being that variety. What makes the 1800 S-NC-1 so much more special than the S-196? I don't see a difference that's worth 5000 times a very similar coin. Sure, it's rare, but is that the only interesting thing about it? The common S-196 has the same theoretical chance of being held by the founding fathers as the uber-rare NC-1.

Don't get me wrong. I love large cents as they have a lot of character. Some varieties and die states are indeed interesting (S-48, S-121b, etc.), and are understandably worth a premium.

 

I think closer to V but you are right, not much to definitely determine the differences in the reference books. The bulge has not taken over the TED in states yet. The S-202 posted earlier shows the VII die state. BTW, that's another very nice coin you have there.

 

My quest in large cents covers several areas. The 1794's for instance. I also have one set that I try and collect the terminal die states of each variety of the early dates. The terminal dies are just that. The very last strike of a coin before the fatal die injury.

Your example of NC-1 verses S-196 comes down to the number of survivors available. 15 - 20 verses > 2000 available to collectors.

 

I would place it as a Late IV or Early V with definite dentil clash marks at D S (IV) and the beginning of obverse swelling. Whether you consider obverse swelling sufficient to make it to extreme obverse swelling (V) is a matter of opinion, but I think I would go with Late IV if pushed to choose.

In looking at Breen's Encyclopedia, I am wondering about the Die State III bulge at (I)T. I see no evidence of it on later die states and it shouldn't go away like clash marks with polishing and wear. It certainly is not apparent on your Late IV.

 

The rarity does make the difference. A 1799 isn't significantly different from a common 1798, but they are much harder to find. The price is significantly higher because date collectors are more common. SO variety collectors are similar with a different focus and fewer collectors to drive up prices as much, but still a bit more than you might expect.

 

I'm in total agreement on die state III. My two examples III and IV do not show bulging there.

 

Here is another one that's interesting from my family's junk box.

 

179 visible, Type 2 hair, Reverse of 98, so limited to 98 or 99. I'll have to rotate it to match my comps.

After rotating both obverse and reverse, I really can't narrow it down much more. Too many of the subtle die markers are gone. My best guess is S-160 to S-187. I can exclude a handful, but far too many are left.

 

Thanks Marshall. I can clearly read the 179 and the last digit appears to be an 8. I will try and narrow it down and post better photos. I'm having a very hard time seeing to take photos lately.

 

It most closely matches obverse 28 but my eyesight is getting blurry tonight. I will continue in the morning. Had a better night bidding tonight. Won two 1794's and a 1797 so I'm going to bed happy.

 

Marshall, Molkever, many thank for your help with the die state.

Moekeever, would love to see your latest 94's.
I have been wanting to add some 94's to my collection but it is not easy to find R-5's or better if you don't want to spend too much.

 

Wanted to share this rare 1797 which I cherry-picked some years ago. The variety is known for low grades and mushy/grainy reverses with the best being a VF25 or so.
The coin is better in hand.

 

Well Eduard, now that's a cherry pick! I don't have the S-124 but I haven't been buying very many 1797's. You can see the rust spots from the die on yours, that's cool!

 

Luckily I have several to buy before I start getting into the R-5's. I have so many duplicates because if they go cheap, I buy them regardless if I already own the variety or not. My plan is to fill one Dansco album full of 1794's. I will never complete the series so the more the better is my current plan.

 

I took more photos of this coin.

The reverse appears to "O". The first left outside berry touches the leaf and stem. That narrows it down to 160, 162 or 176. On the 160 the "7" leans right so that's out. The 162 has the top of "1" almost square. I can clearly see the point on mine so that's out. So if I'm correct it's a S-176. LIB appear closer than the rest of Liberty. A lot of the other markers are not visible. That would make it a R-4-. Another one I didn't have.

 

This S-124 appears to be Die State IV to me. It is really a nice one as Vg10 is in a tie for 9th or 10th best. I believe this has at least fine details, though I'm not sure how to net it.

 

Update on this.

This weighed in at 151 grains which is 2 grains under a TAL token, 17 grains under a 76b and 57 grains under a 76a. I'm not sure how much to allow for wear even beyond the variance in the weights of the newly minted coins.

One of the possible "letters" looks like a w and the markings appear evenly spaced, even though mostly illegible as letters. I haven't found anything that indicates NEW YORK ever appeared on the edge, though New York does appear elsewhere on some TAL Tokens.