Athens Owl die axis question

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Silverlock, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. Silverlock

    Silverlock Well-Known Member

    I recently acquired this coin:

    88B89C9F-BC0A-41B1-BE56-98F85CB0D9C4.jpeg

    4E1AF588-3E56-4D43-BE41-5403A2CCBD62.jpeg

    Attica, Athens
    454-404 BC
    AR Tetradrachm
    Helmeted head of Athena right, with frontal eye
    Owl standing right, head facing; olive sprig and crescent behind; all within incuse square
    17.047 gm
    23.5 mm

    The die axis of this coin is 130, which is quite at odds to the norm of 270 or 90. Is this a cause for concern?
     
    randygeki likes this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    I would assume that die axis means how rotated the obverse and reverse are in relation to each other. For ancients, I don't think that is an issue. I will be very happy to see what others think.
     
  4. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    At the end of the day these were handmade and quality varied depending on how the particular coiner felt at that time of day. If he had too much wine during a break, or was in a hurry to get to get off work to make his way to a brothel to sleep with his favorite prostitute, all bets are off. Off centered, flat strikes, double strikes, incorrect orientation, etc., are all par for the course with handmade coins minted in the millions.

    Here is my coin. I'll have to check on the die orientation later.

    Attica Athena Owl Tet.jpg
     
    randygeki and furryfrog02 like this.
  5. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    CNG's attributions give the die axis. A spot-check of the first dozen or two listings from recent e-auctions (frontal eye tets like the OP) shows a complete range of numbers on the 12 hour rotation scale. In other words... any rotation can be found.
     
  6. David@PCC

    David@PCC allcoinage.com

    I'll edit my answer as I have not even looked at axes, but seems like TIF did the work so I think you have your answer. I feel that Greek coins can be slopier (perhaps that applies more to bronze?) and consider Roman coins to adhere to a stricter orientation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    The answers above are not in keeping with my personal observation but I have not done a scientific study. I agree with you that most are 270 or 90 which I would call 9 or 3 o'clock (9H or 3H). I would be less concerned about 2H or 8H (sloppy workmanship) than 12H or 6H but that does not mean they don't exist. They made those things for many years with many workers under many bosses. Die axis was not their prime consideration. You don't use something like this alone to accept or doubt a coin but you should note all things about a coin that make it seem odd.

    For the record, most of my obols are 6H. I have no idea why a mint did things the way they did but it is something to study. There are some coins that are consistent to the point I might doubt a coin that was 'wrong'. This is not one I know of to be that way. From memory, the later 'New Style' tets are consistently 12H. Am I wrong?
     
  8. Silverlock

    Silverlock Well-Known Member

    Thank you TIF for teaching me two things. One about the die axis of these coins, and the other that CNG lists them.
     
  9. Silverlock

    Silverlock Well-Known Member

    @dougsmit. That’s been my experience as well. I first read the 9H and 3H observation on Forvm, and it’s stuck with me ever since. My obol is 6H as well.
     
  10. Silverlock

    Silverlock Well-Known Member

    Thanks everyone for the replies. My concern was less about authenticity than proper attribution. If the Athens coins were all one die axis, then perhaps this coin was sourced from one of the many imitative mints nearby. That kind of thing.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page