Athenian owl tetradrachm genuine?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by gogili1977, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    If anyone can help me with this tetradrachm. I was offered this tetradrachm by one collector for 400 eur. Is it original and is the price too high? I am not experienced with Greek silver coins. Weight is 16.8 g.
    Thanks in advance.

    imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-9BXQH2wdXOqiqX.jpg
     
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  3. arnoldoe

    arnoldoe Well-Known Member

    Yes
    Yes
     
  4. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    Thanks. Which would be a fair price?
     
  5. arnoldoe

    arnoldoe Well-Known Member

  6. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    In that grade $100 would be the highest price one should expect, but if you look around you will find a much better example and cheaper.
     
  7. Stuart Williams

    Stuart Williams New Member

    Your coin looks ok to me, but €400 is way too much! In that condition, I'd not pay more than €60 (about $65) for it.
     
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  8. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    I think it is probably real, but very overpriced. I got my new style tetradrachm in much higher grade for $320. You can do better. Pretty much any auction will have something nicer you can snag for less than €400, buyer’s fees included.
     
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  9. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    This thread raises a question I have been pondering. We know that the recent hoard flooding the market has ade it possible for many people to get the owl of their dreams. Most people who have a desire for just one owl prefer the Classical style which is what is in the new group. Previously, many of us 'settled' for a late owl from the dumpy period because they wee cheaper. I wonder if the current ease of finding really nice, classical style coins will reduce the demand for the space filler owls and make the late, the worn, the off center 'factory second' owls harder to move. Certainly the coin in question is worth much less than the asking price but are we really at the point that you can get an owl tetradrachm for $65? The flood of really nice coins might have an effect on the higher end market or not depending on just how many people want multiples of exceptional coins. Will it also lower the price on the coin of styles not included in the new batch?
     
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  10. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    Certainly not. While the coin is question isn't worth the asking price it also is not worth as little as $65. Even my estimate was a bit on the low side. A very quick look around at fixed prices shows me that the cheapest of these start around $125 and quickly get more expensive. Now, I understand, one can easily find plenty of auction results of very low prices, but there are always exceptions in the market. In my 30 years of being a dealer I have seen where a lot of people have unrealistic expectations of value, both high and low. My responses are usually the same, if you can find them that cheap let me know and I will buy all that I can.

    As to the current hoard. Prices have already come down. Dealer prices for those were initially just under $1,000, less if you bought 10. I have seen plenty nice examples hammer in the $600-700 range (add $100 or so for the commissions). But then again, I have never quite understood the series of coins. I have seen examples with near full crests, well centered, EF, no problems, sell for under $1,000 and in the same sale one I felt was not as good selling for double. Its a weird series of coins.
     
  11. CalGoldGuyDave

    CalGoldGuyDave New Member

    It is not from Athens. It is a imitation minted in Arabia. It is smaller and lighter weight. All the coins have an S on the cheek. Yours is faint but there
     
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  12. CalGoldGuyDave

    CalGoldGuyDave New Member

    Nicer examples sell for about $200-250.
     
  13. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    So much this.

    I settled for a late owl because it was significantly cheaper than the classical style. I am very proud of that owl, and I love it to bits, but I would love a classical owl as well.

    But as @Ken Dorney says, no, you cannot get a late owl for $65.
     
  14. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    Okay. Now I am Confused. "Late Owl"???
    What is a "Late Owl" (or an 'early' owl for that matter),and,
    What sort of Owls do I have? (Because of my budget, I am presuming 'late' owls.)

    APULIA Teate SNG Cop. 690 var.
    225-200 B.C.E.
    (1) APULIA Teate SNG Cop. 690 var..jpg

    Sicily Kamarina Tetras Athena Owl Eule 3.46 g 15 mm SNG Cop. 169.
    420-410 B.C.E.
    Magical Snap - 2019.08.24 11.11 - 076.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  15. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    I'm sure I'll get this slightly wrong, and those more knowledgeable will jump into fine tune this response, but essentially a classical owl tetradrachm is one before around 350BC, whereas a late owl is after 350BC (roughly corresponding to before and after Alexander the Great).

    In terms of style and quality, a classical owl has a more pleasant design and better quality strike, whereas a late owl almost looks like a barbaric imitation in comparison.

    Here is an entry level classical owl from circa 450 to 400BC:
    upload_2019-8-24_12-22-42.png

    Here is an entry level (my) late owl from circa 350 to 300BC:
    [​IMG]
    Both are from Attica, Athens.
     
  16. Ryro

    Ryro You'll never be lovelier than you are now... Supporter

    And in-between classical and late there was mine:

    F1247DEE-FA1F-4525-B781-16085EF60076.png
    ATTICA, Athens.
    After 393 BC. AR Tetradrachm (19 MM 16.67 gm). Helmeted head of Athena right, wearing crested Attic helmet with three olive leaves over visor and a spiral palmette on the bowl / AQE, owl standing right, head facing; olive sprig and crescent behind; all in an incuse square. SNG Copenhagen 63; BMC Attica pg. 13, 129; Svoronos, Athenes pl. 20, 1.
    Previous: Savoca Coins
     
  17. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    @AussieCollector
    Aha! So the 'Kamarina' is 'Classical' and the 'Apulia' is 'Late'?
    One of each. Good. Thank-you.
     
  18. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Supporter! Supporter

    This is a rather unusual Owl. I bought it at the Denver Summer ANA. Tetradrachm of Athens Circa 420 B.C. Obv. Flament Group III 16 Rv. Flament Group II r. 17.18 grms 22 mm athens42.jpg
     
  19. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Hoping to figure this out eventually....

    When discussing "classical" and "late" Owls... my understanding is that we are discussing Owls from Athens.. not from other cities or regions that minted coins that happened to have an Owl - which are a different type?

    I may be completely wrong (and I don't own either... yet... and I love your coins).
    Maybe an experienced collector can clarify? These are so far out of my reach (at the moment) that I have not read much about them .. just admired.
     
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  20. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    @Clavdivs
    Oh! That makes sense. Thank you.
     
  21. arnoldoe

    arnoldoe Well-Known Member

    Yes you can, but it won't be very good..
     
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