Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Assistance With Chinese Ancient
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="TypeCoin971793, post: 5358351, member: 78244"]A few minor comments:</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I’m not sure of the veracity of this theory.Some have also suggested that jade disks (“Bi”) were the inspiration for round coins with a round hole. The shape is more congruent to the coins than the whorls. What the round coins are supposed to represent may never be known for sure.</p><p><br /></p><p>A couple examples of Chinese bronze spinning whorls:</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1227409[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1227410[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>An example of a Jade “Bi” disk:</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1227413[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The Ban Liangs weren’t comonly used throughout China until the unification of Qin in 221 BC. They were used with increased frequency as the Qin state conquered more and more of its neighboring states. Round coins with a round hole as a type are scarce (most of the inscriptions are quite rare), which means the states that issued them were conquered soon after they first began being made and superceded by Ban Liangs. Before the states of Yan and Qi (NE China) were conquered, the concept of the Ban Liang had spread to them, and they started producing round coins with square holes.</p><p><br /></p><p>Until the unification of Qin, knife coins of various types, square-foot spades, and ant-nose coins were used with great regularity, possibly more frequently than Ban Liangs.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The Wu Zhus were introduced in 117 BC. From about 180 BC to then, Ban Liangs were cast to a fairly consistent standard, but to one about 50% or less of their inscribed value.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Very, very few Ban Liangs are known with round holes. The fact that examples of such exist implies that they were originally modeled after the round coins with round holes, but their scarcity implies that the Qin decided that the square hole made manufacture much more efficient. The earliest Ban Liangs that can be dated are dated to 378 BC.</p><p><br /></p><p>Here are a couple examples with round holes. These are the only two I have ever seen.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1227424[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1227425[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p>This example in my collection has a roundish hole, but I believe it was intended to be square. It never went on a square peg though.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1227423[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p>And this is a Qin State/Qin Dynasty example that shows clear evidence of having been shoved onto a square peg. It is one of the earliest known examples that shows this.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1227426[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Huo Quan moulds have been found whose inscriptions date them to up to 40 AD. There is a clear difference in style/size/weight/etc. between official Huo Quans issued between 14 and 23 AD and unofficial ones issued between 23 and 40 AD.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="TypeCoin971793, post: 5358351, member: 78244"]A few minor comments: I’m not sure of the veracity of this theory.Some have also suggested that jade disks (“Bi”) were the inspiration for round coins with a round hole. The shape is more congruent to the coins than the whorls. What the round coins are supposed to represent may never be known for sure. A couple examples of Chinese bronze spinning whorls: [ATTACH=full]1227409[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1227410[/ATTACH] An example of a Jade “Bi” disk: [ATTACH=full]1227413[/ATTACH] The Ban Liangs weren’t comonly used throughout China until the unification of Qin in 221 BC. They were used with increased frequency as the Qin state conquered more and more of its neighboring states. Round coins with a round hole as a type are scarce (most of the inscriptions are quite rare), which means the states that issued them were conquered soon after they first began being made and superceded by Ban Liangs. Before the states of Yan and Qi (NE China) were conquered, the concept of the Ban Liang had spread to them, and they started producing round coins with square holes. Until the unification of Qin, knife coins of various types, square-foot spades, and ant-nose coins were used with great regularity, possibly more frequently than Ban Liangs. The Wu Zhus were introduced in 117 BC. From about 180 BC to then, Ban Liangs were cast to a fairly consistent standard, but to one about 50% or less of their inscribed value. Very, very few Ban Liangs are known with round holes. The fact that examples of such exist implies that they were originally modeled after the round coins with round holes, but their scarcity implies that the Qin decided that the square hole made manufacture much more efficient. The earliest Ban Liangs that can be dated are dated to 378 BC. Here are a couple examples with round holes. These are the only two I have ever seen. [ATTACH=full]1227424[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1227425[/ATTACH] This example in my collection has a roundish hole, but I believe it was intended to be square. It never went on a square peg though. [ATTACH=full]1227423[/ATTACH] And this is a Qin State/Qin Dynasty example that shows clear evidence of having been shoved onto a square peg. It is one of the earliest known examples that shows this. [ATTACH=full]1227426[/ATTACH] Huo Quan moulds have been found whose inscriptions date them to up to 40 AD. There is a clear difference in style/size/weight/etc. between official Huo Quans issued between 14 and 23 AD and unofficial ones issued between 23 and 40 AD.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Assistance With Chinese Ancient
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...