Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Assault on collecting
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Valentinian, post: 2201595, member: 44316"]Here is more (shocking!) information posted (not by me) on the Moneta-L list. You really need to sign this petition! ("Coming soon to a theater near you!")</p><p><br /></p><p>Dear List, </p><p><br /></p><p>to better inform your discussion, and counteract the apparently massive misinterpretations, here my understanding of the announced law (disclaimer I am not a lawyer, but I spoke to many): </p><p><br /></p><p>this new law is announced to go by the grand coalition of Angela Merkel to the German Parliament after August 26th. </p><p><br /></p><p>Part 1 = Import / Export: </p><p>Objects are illegal to import into Germany without the export license of the "country of origin" which is not the last country that traded for example the coin but a hypothetical country. Maybe where the coin was minted, the place a coin was found, or any country claiming to be in the footsteps of i.e. Rome. No lower limit of value for coins or archaeological objects. For the export license of another country 'of origin' their local law is used, i.e. some 150 or more different foreign culture laws become also binding law in Germany. </p><p><br /></p><p>Objects are illegal to leave Germany without an export permit </p><p><br /></p><p>Part 2 = Trading/Dealing "Inverkehrbringen" </p><p>The law is affecting private collectors for any archaeological object including coins with a value starting from zero, i.e. no lower limit of value. Collectors and Dealers have to prove retrospectively that the object was </p><p>1) not stolen or lost , </p><p>2) not imported into Germany without the export license of the "country of origin" which is not the last country that traded the coin but a hypothetical country which for coins could be the mint, the place a coin was found, or any country claiming to be in the footsteps of i.e. Rome) </p><p>3) not of an illegal excavation </p><p>There is no - repeat- no lower value limit, and also no time limit, and it is retroactive. The collector/dealer has to prove. </p><p>Penalty is risk of confiscation of the object and it cannot be sold/traded anymore. Plus up to 5 years prison </p><p><br /></p><p>A second part affecting coin collectors is introducing additional documentation for dealers: </p><p>1) document the identities of seller and buyer and prices </p><p>2) document the object with photo </p><p>3) do intense provenance searches and document them </p><p>4) make all above available to anyone interested to buy </p><p>5) to store all above for 30 years </p><p>If an object is an archaeological object or coin, and is valued below 100€s only activities 1/2/4/5 are needed. If any other object is below 2500€ the same, no provenance search is needed. If an object is affected by an ICOM red list no lower value and reduced activities (and as you may know or could google the ICOM list for Syria lists any Roman coin with an emperor on one side and 'SC' on the other) </p><p>Penalties for noncompliance is up to 5 years prison and up to 100.000€. </p><p><br /></p><p>An additional part is for third party countries claiming that an object in Germany is their cultural property. Essential if an object cannot be proven to have been in Germany before 31.12.1992 for EU member states or before April 2007 for UNESCO member states it can be claimed back. Complex paragraphs dealing with that. </p><p><br /></p><p>A copy of the planned law was made available to the press last week, but was never posted so far on a government website.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Valentinian, post: 2201595, member: 44316"]Here is more (shocking!) information posted (not by me) on the Moneta-L list. You really need to sign this petition! ("Coming soon to a theater near you!") Dear List, to better inform your discussion, and counteract the apparently massive misinterpretations, here my understanding of the announced law (disclaimer I am not a lawyer, but I spoke to many): this new law is announced to go by the grand coalition of Angela Merkel to the German Parliament after August 26th. Part 1 = Import / Export: Objects are illegal to import into Germany without the export license of the "country of origin" which is not the last country that traded for example the coin but a hypothetical country. Maybe where the coin was minted, the place a coin was found, or any country claiming to be in the footsteps of i.e. Rome. No lower limit of value for coins or archaeological objects. For the export license of another country 'of origin' their local law is used, i.e. some 150 or more different foreign culture laws become also binding law in Germany. Objects are illegal to leave Germany without an export permit Part 2 = Trading/Dealing "Inverkehrbringen" The law is affecting private collectors for any archaeological object including coins with a value starting from zero, i.e. no lower limit of value. Collectors and Dealers have to prove retrospectively that the object was 1) not stolen or lost , 2) not imported into Germany without the export license of the "country of origin" which is not the last country that traded the coin but a hypothetical country which for coins could be the mint, the place a coin was found, or any country claiming to be in the footsteps of i.e. Rome) 3) not of an illegal excavation There is no - repeat- no lower value limit, and also no time limit, and it is retroactive. The collector/dealer has to prove. Penalty is risk of confiscation of the object and it cannot be sold/traded anymore. Plus up to 5 years prison A second part affecting coin collectors is introducing additional documentation for dealers: 1) document the identities of seller and buyer and prices 2) document the object with photo 3) do intense provenance searches and document them 4) make all above available to anyone interested to buy 5) to store all above for 30 years If an object is an archaeological object or coin, and is valued below 100€s only activities 1/2/4/5 are needed. If any other object is below 2500€ the same, no provenance search is needed. If an object is affected by an ICOM red list no lower value and reduced activities (and as you may know or could google the ICOM list for Syria lists any Roman coin with an emperor on one side and 'SC' on the other) Penalties for noncompliance is up to 5 years prison and up to 100.000€. An additional part is for third party countries claiming that an object in Germany is their cultural property. Essential if an object cannot be proven to have been in Germany before 31.12.1992 for EU member states or before April 2007 for UNESCO member states it can be claimed back. Complex paragraphs dealing with that. A copy of the planned law was made available to the press last week, but was never posted so far on a government website.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Assault on collecting
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...