Artificially Toned Coins on Ebay

I agree. My initial reply was in response to a post which indicated nothing was wrong with selling AT coins on Ebay. I didn't indicate and don't believe that it usually does much, if any good to report it to Ebay, however.

 

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OK, I should have said "That guy is doing absolutely doing nothing wrong by eBay rules". And I will stand by that despite your allegations about alterations.

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But wouldn't you agree that someone causing the toning through chemical or other means is altering the coins appearance and trying to enhance the eye appeal, atleast for those who like collecting toned coins?

NT is just that, it happens naturally.

 

Whether NT is "just that" or not, depends upon how those actions are performed and what your working definition of "NT" is.

Following is the best definition for "NT" and "AT" I have seen, though none will ever be close to perfect:

"Natural toning is the formation of oxides, sulfides, or other compounds on the surfaces of a coin as the result of gaseous compounds that are present in the ambient atmosphere where coins are placed (1) for purposes consistent with their intended use in commerce, or (2) for storage in a manner traditionally accepted by numismatists.

Artificial toning is the formation of oxides, sulfides, or other compounds on the surfaces of a coin by any process other than that which causes natural toning."

 

NO! Envelope on a window sill. AT or NT? BTW, the chemical is sulfur. If you can define AT so every expert agrees and it is obvious and repeatable in all instances, you might have a case. Until such time, you cannot have non-experts trying to enforce rules that the expert cannot agree about.

 

I am not sure what the willingness to pay strong premiums has to do with my memory. If anything, I should clearly remember when I didn't have to pay such exorbitant premiums. My memory tells me that premiums started to climb steeply in 2002. I will admit that there were probably still opportunities to find some reasonably priced toners in 2004, but they were few and far between at that point, especially in major auctions.

 

Ill give you a scenario that is very true. About a month ago I purchased two franklin halves I took pictures of them and then carelessly set them up in my closet with the intention of going and getting some more flips. Next day rolls around and all he had was flips containing PVC so I ended up forgetting about them. I go to take care of the mess in the top of the closet according to my wife's orders (LOL) and to my surprise the slight rim toning has turned into complete obverse rainbow toning. This was not on purpose but I am not gonna lie, there is a whole gang of silver coins up in the same spot now. Am I a toning Doctor? I wont take offense if anybody wants to call me one. the coins are for my enjoyment. I am not throwing them in a hot oven or placing chemicals on them. I simply live in a very humid state and its summer. Now if I placed them in an envelope and set them in the window I would probably be a coin doctor. If I made my family suffer by turning off the central air to get my coins toning than maybe you could call me a coin doctor. I simply found something out on accident and since the coins are right up my alley I am going to continue to take advantage of the opportunity. By the way the one Franklin is the only coin showing dramatic toning, the others have toned in the last week or so but not nearly as dramatic. maybe I can snap a pic of the franklin now and show the before and after pics

 

can I rent part of your closet?

 

LOL when I seen them I was gonna make a thread that said parts of my closet were for rent

 

Discussions on toning reach the philosophical level of whether trees falling in the forest makes a sound. Chemistry is chemistry. Use the same chemicals in the same manner and you get identical AT and NT toning. It is very humorous to read people arguing that if you put a coin into a coin envelope on purpose to tone it is AT, but if you put it into a coin envelope with no knowledge, it is NT. Sounds like quantum physics. New term : ) Quantum toning!

 

I just wanted it to be clear I didnt intend on them changing color. they had nice enough toning for me. but they are cheap enough that i am willing to see what happends from here

 

Yes he does.

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Note: Translucent colors exceptional cartwheel on both the obverse and the reverse. Not AT and not cleaned a rarity for a ungraded Morgan on eBay. [/FONT]"

John

 

OMG! Here we go with the chemistry experts. Good thing I know "nothing" about it LOL...

AT coins on the bay are easy to identify and there are long lists of sellers and docs out there. The one you showed johndoe is only a small pest in the world of sellers. If you started slow and your father was a collector, I'm sure you're smart enough to ask and research as much as possible before jumping into "toned coins.

BTW, What's with the name? Hope it isn't the last kid who couldn't give me a name because he was too afraid....lol

 

And I wasn't specifically referring to you or anyone, just that this conception seems to pop up almost daily on at least one coin forum or another. Things seem to be getting more realistic, in that there seems to be more acceptance over the last few years that the chemical reactions are basically the same. Delivery of the chemicals can play an important part. Amateurs use liquids or solids, the "pros" seem to use ************. But really, put it into a Wayte Raymond album ( ON PURPOSE TO TONE) it is AT, but put it in by mistake thinking it is really an Intercept Album, is NT?

Why would a used Wayte Raymond album for small cents with 8 pages, empty and USED for $95 BIN., or a 3 pg Roosevelt dime album for $65 BIN, be more than a new Whitman, Intercept, etc. album? Nostalgia?

 

I'll say it again....my beef with him is that he states that the coins are not AT.
and yes, I started with only blast white coins, learning that some were cleaned. now that I love toned coins, I only buy certified and even then I'm suspicious when they're neon and wild.

 

You are absolutely correct. I missed that 7 ways from Sunday and twice over. But that does not change anything I said about eBay rules. They will not and cannot do anything about it.

Take him up on his guarantee;

And his has 0 negatives or neutrals in his last 1150 feedbacks.

 

Well said my friend!

 

Intelligent chap too. He can't spell guarantee and doesn't he realize the number comes AFTER the grade level designation? Anyone heard of a 65-MS coin? LOL

 

how bout a MS62 GEM? lots of them on ebay.