Are these adjustment marks?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by GeorgeM, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    I came across an 1878-S Morgan with what appear to be planchet adjustment marks on both the obverse and reverse. I've only seen those on older coins before (pre Civil War) & am wondering if something else is going on here. Hoping it's not just PMD.

    Perhaps this is a strike through or lamination error (it appears at approximately the same spot on the obverse and reverse, as if some foreign object had gotten stuck on the dies before the strike)? 20191211_154748.jpg 20191211_154844.jpg
     

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  3. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    No that appears to be damage. They were still adjusting planchets at that time but unlike the early years where they ran the file across the face of the blanks/planchets, the adjustments were made to the edge going around the circumference.
     
  4. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Agree with Conder101
     
  5. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

  6. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I agree, that appears to be post mint damage. Too bad, because the coin looks nice otherwise.
     
    GeorgeM likes this.
  7. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Looks like wire cutters or something of the like
     
  8. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    Looks like pmd to me
     
  9. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    I've never seen anything like this before. Why would someone take wire cutters to a Morgan? Was this a rough assay to check the silver that anyone else has come across?

    Sad, because this coin is otherwise in pretty decent shape.
     
  10. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    You can ask the same thing about a whole bunch of other stupid things that people do. Because it does not make logical sense to you does not mean it could not have happened.
     
  11. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    So true.
     
  12. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    stick around and you'll see plenty of coins where ppl take cutters or anvil cutters too. Happens all the time. Don't you ever think you could cut a coin in half or something (like make ppl believe your have a mint error) with your rose pruning shears ? Just search "pliers" or "shears" and you'll get plenty of examples.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  13. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    Shouldn't there be raised metal on one edge if this is PMD caused by crimping/cutting? If you look at the closeup photos, I'm only seeing absent metal.
     
  14. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    I'm not familiar with "adjustment marks" on Morgans.

    but, it Depends how it was done.

    It's obvious it wasn't from an anvil (flat) type of tool which would smoosh it.
    upload_2019-12-18_8-36-14.png
    It was from a sharp/cutting type tool. From that shear action that is seen, that would then displace the metal. The metal then could have been torn off never to be seen again.

    This is an instance where, if you were there doing it or watching you would know exactly what happened. If you weren't, then you are just guessing.

    We don't know exactly what "tools" were used, we're only taking a guess. Was it held in the hand? affixed to a surface? dropped ?

    Maybe it was a small chisel (or some chisel-type action) that (using an uneven action) was used as that would be my guess actually looking at the 2 side surfaces and the edges. But then I use small chisels too so I'm familiar with them and what the cutting/chiseling action looks like on metal. But then, it's just another guess as I wasn't there .. and I'm not about to test the theory on one of my Morgans.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
    GeorgeM likes this.
  15. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    The toll came in at the side of the cut toward the top of the picture. You can see the shear marks as it cut into the surface of the coin and it has pushed up metal on the edge of the mark toward the bottom side of the picture. the toll was moving into the coin from roughly 11:00 toward 5:30 and dug in deeper at the left end of the cut than the right. The shear lines show you what direction the tool was moving. It's not cutting across the coin, it is digging INTO the coin and pushing up a ridge in front of it.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
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