Are the collectors going to die off?

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In response to the OP.. my 2 bucks worth of info..
We are all going to die one day...leave a legacy, there are and will always be collectors of history. The history of Americana makes it even richer!

RickieB

 

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But many others are very much alive.

Considering the enormous roiling in the financial markets 18 months ago, is it wise to project recent trends observed during the worst financial mess of our lifetimes ? In science, we call that "extrapolating beyond the data". Unsound.

BTW... prices and the coin market are rebounding nicely - and I'm not the only one who feels that way. Further, prices on strong coins didn't drop near as much as equity prices, even during the deepest trough. Many individual coins sold for strong money during the worst of times - which are behind us.

 

I'm not going to read through all 5 pages to see if someone already mentioned this but as you know, old collectors NEVER die, they simply get slabbed...

 

Tough times ?

When times are tough barter and trade grows. If you have cash there are good buys. The means and method changes, but anyone who collects coins or stamps, has a respect for history.

Pep

 

I think coin collecting is dying, but at the same time it's being reborn as a new hobby.
The first thing that is killing it is US coins stopped using silver. That was 46 years ago. Young collectors have no memory of using them in circulation. In another 45 years, silver coins will be ancient history. Kids collect what they like, and what they relate to. Comic books, Pokemon cards, Beanie Babies, state quarters. Trouble is, state quarters will go the way of sports cards, the interest will be gone, and the quarters will be worth a quarter a piece. It's scary what the mint is doing. State quarters, presidential dollars, the new cents and nickels. It reminds me when comic books and sports cards were hot 20 years ago. Holographic cards--comic books with multiple covers. Companies pumping out "collector's items" by the boatload. That's what killed them.

I think another reason why the hobby is hurting is the professional grading. The grading services started with coins, now comics and sports cards are graded. I was the happiest person in the world when I opened my pack of Fleer basketball cards and got a Michael Jordan rookie card, and I was an adult. Now my Jordan card is sitting in a plastic holder somewhere in my junk drawer because no one wants it. They want the 9.9 mint state graded card on ebay. Kids don't appreciate the gradings the way us old-timers do, but they are taught, just like the comics and cards, that quality is best. What kid can afford a graded anything. To kids it's quantity, not quality. If the interest is there, they will learn at their own pace, not at the pace we try to teach them. The grading services turned the comic and card collecting hobby to an adult's hobby

Ebay is the real killer of coin collecting. Now it's coin buying, not collecting. I read an article from Newsweek years ago when ebay first came on the scene. This writer was a lunchbox collector. His goal was finding a certain lunchbox that he had been looking for. He looked on ebay, and he had a choice of a half dozen or so of the lunchbox he had been searching years for. That depressed him. The thrill of the hunt was gone. Ebay has taken the thrill of finding that elusive rare item to complete your collection. Now all you have to worry about is which one you want from the list to choose from. That's not fun.

I think us old timers are also killing the hobby. I was an adult when comics and cards were hot. That's what killed the hobbies. I'd go to the comic book store, and the place would be packed, with adults. What kid wants to collect what their parents collect. Here's a sad story. I had lost interest in coins. My nine year old daughter came home from Grandpa's house with a stack of old coins. That peaked my interest again. We got out my collection. My daughter was in coin collecting heaven. We would go to the coin stores, we discovered ebay. We were buying a lot of coins for a while, then the interest died for her. Then I realized why. Her interest had turned into my obsession. The stuff I was buying was mine in her eyes. She was more excited coming home from Grandma's with a 1990 Canadian quarter than she was about us getting a Morgan in the mail. I almost killed the hobby for her. Kids are smart. They want, and usually get whatever they want. But they also know that the "earned" things mean more than anything you can spoil them with. I think my daughter will always collect coins, maybe not full time, but it will always be in her life. I think that coin collecting will always be here. Maybe not as open as it was, that's already happened, but the hobby won't die.

 

I agree about the grading of comics and such. I loved comic books, it took over my hobby of coins as a young teen but over time I found myself dropping alot of money on comics with fancy covers or alternates that it just killed my collecting. Now I only buy 1 comic a month. I goto local cons and san diego comic con each year and it floors me how many comics are all graded & the price tag going along with them.

Ive warmed up to graded coins as I have gotten back into the hobby but I have yet to take my coins and have them all professionally graded. I cant afford it. The money to have them graded, insured, and shipped could go towards other coins I want to own.

 

This has more to do with the dying print media industry than any factor within the hobby.

 

You folks ever stop to consider that coin collecting is a leisurely hobby that can get quite expensive and therefore has a tendency to attract an "older" audience?

Is coin collecting dying?

No.

Do coin collectors die?

Yes.

People naturally "collect" things and what better things to collect than things which you can spend or get for free at any bank or grocery store?

The very fact that coins which are hundreds of years old and yet are in near perfect condition proves that coin collecting has been around and active for over 200 years and I expect it will be around and active in another 200 years.

To think otherwise simply lacks depth.

Will the current popularity for buying and selling coins die?

Possibly. If enough people get ripped off or lose their shirts because they "invested" in coins, sure. However, this will NOT affect coin "collectors" and at some point in time, interest will get renewed because in the future it'll get reported that "so an so just sold his collection of high grade clad Washington Quarters for over a million dollars!"

 

no

 

Interesting point.

When silver was circulating, so were older designs. e.g. when Rosies had silver, there were Mercs circulating. When Kennedies had silver, Frankies and even Walkers circulated.

When the coinage went clad, all silver was scrubbed from circulation, which consequently removed the older designs. Thus, circulating coinage is all one design and thus less intruiging to the casual change-searcher.

Yes, that works against the hobby, but one must give it the appropriate weight. It is certainly not killing the hobby.

There are multiple factors at play - some positive, some negative. The sum of all factors adds up to positive; the hobby is not dying, it's growing.

 

Number me in the large group which feels professional grading is an enormous positive, and one reason why the hobby is growing, not dying.

True... but why would that kill coin collecting ?

 

I think e-bay is an enormous positive to the hobby, and possibly the single biggest positive influence in the last 15 years.

I have no idea how many more collectors are around thanks to e-bay, but I bet it's tens of thousands. Maybe more. Maybe a LOT more.

The vast majority of Americans and Canadians have little access to a really good coin store. For many who do, it's the "same ole same ole" thing; the inventory is stale. Even for those who live in LA, New York, or Toronto, hitting every store in town would be extremely time consuming and come well short of the variety of internet coin shopping.

E-Bay + Teletrade + Heritage = the most amazing selection of coins imaginable - literally everything from a roll of "unsearched" wheaties to 1804 Dollars.

Where is the negative in that ?

 

The internet is revolutionizing everything. The coin hobby / industry is a major benefactor of new technology.

 

Maybe we should try and get some of these younger folks out of the bedroom, from in front of their X Boxes with their $50.00 games and $300.00 video systems and $2,000.00 big screen TV's and into the hobby we all love? Maybe teach them the value of a hobby that may have an positive impact on their lives now and into the future instaed of handing them a $50.00 bill to get lost at the mall? Maybe buy them a $5.00 folder, show them how to put the coins in them instaed of buying them a $2,000.00 gaming system? How about taking them to a coin show instead of a baseball game that might cost us upwards of $300.00 that they can watch for free on the tube? I dunno, but I think we adults are mostly to blame if the coin collecting population seems to be dieing off. JMO

 

I agree with everything you say 900. Grading and ebay is great--for us established collectors. But we're talking about the youngsters. What would a nine year old collector just starting rather have--a graded Peace dollar or a bagful of foreign coins from the four for a buck box? If my daughter had a choice, she would much rather have the bag of coins. As parents we can explain the difference between the two choices, and she might even take your advice and buy the slabbed coin, but the thrill of the moment will be gone. Little collectors need to enjoy the hobby before they see it as an investment.

As for ebay, I love it. Where else can I buy 8 mercury dimes for a buck each? But I think ebay has taken away the thrill of finding that coin you always wanted. The hunt is part of the collecting, and ebay has taken that away.

 

Nah...I think it just changed the hunt. You have to hone your skills for shopping on E-bay. I bought a '27-S standing liberty in a nicely circulated grade probably 1 minute after it was listed with a buy it now. I was looking for a fairly graded one at a good price, and all of the sudden it was there...moments later it was mine. There is definitely a thrill of the hunt on e-bay, but a good deal is like a $20 on the sidewalk. They don't sit there long so you gotta be looking.

Gotta say though...these fake coins are going to absolutely kill the market. I'm paranoid to collect anything raw right now unless it is low grade, obviously naturally toned or just not worth counterfeiting. We oughta press the ANA to lean very heavily on E-bay and congress to outlaw the things. I'd like to see the ANA threaten to open their own website (or just plain do it) for the sale of coins with the understanding that any coin sold shown to be fake could have the seller lose their selling priviledges. Then we need to boycott ebay until they fix the problem. Their inactivity on this issue should not be tolerated.

On an upbeat note, regarding teaching kids the thrill of the hunt...you're right, they need to learn it and it's good for them. I think tonight I'll let my oldest girl go through my pocket change to find more state quarters for her map. Maybe we'll google the states to learn more about them. Should be fun.

Steve

 

Good idea, Steve. She'll enjoy that way more than you stopping at the coin store and picking up a few graded ms69 slabbed state quarters.

 

Your points are well taken and I didn't really mean to get my hackles up. As you so wisely point out "it is what it is". This certainly applies to all coins including moderns. There can't be "too many" 1996-W dimes because they made a certain number and all the survivors are accounted for. No body is going to throw their's away because there are too many. Frankly I really wouldn't mind owning more of them and if the price came down then I'd probably buy some.

It's no surprise that a lot of people start with moderns and move on to classics. This is EXACTLY what I've been trying to tell the modern bashers for years; if you want new collectors then don't chase them off. New collectors need encouragement a whole lot more than older collectors and they are more easily discouraged, especially some children.

I'm sure you can see that there can be a very fine line between modern bashing and a reasonable dislike of modern coins or an unreasonable hatred of them. I've seen enough of your posts to know you try to always provide a resonable and considered opinion or facts. That we might disagree on this might be largely semantics anyway.

 

Ok, I have set here for half an hour reading this entire post.
There has been a lot of good info and a little bad. I dont think that the newbies like myself go to the the modern coins just because they like those more and dont have like the older ones. I think it is more about figuring out how to look at coins and make sure this is what they want to do withouot a ton of money out of there pocket. My son and I for example have started collecting Lincoln cents and we are starting with memorial cents first because a) we can roll search and plug holes b) We can get the graded ones in PR70 without a ton of money for the start of our registry and c) we learn how to spot reall verses fake coins.
We will eventually get more into the wheats but to be honest, it is more about the bonding time than it is the collecting at this point. Yes, we are both really into the collecting but we love spending those extra minutes during the day looking through a roll or plugging holes or looking online for proofs.
I agree with people saying that the "old timers" can run the new collectors off. I am a new collector and it would have been easy to run me off at the beginning before I became passionate about collecting and learning but the opposite happened with numerous people on this forum by welcoming me and sharing there knowledge and even sending coins to me and my son. It actually made us more excited to collect because of the people and the willingness to help. So for that I say thank you to all who have made it possible for my son and I to have one more thing to make our relationship stronger.

 

One thing that is supposed to help encourage but I believe ends up hurting the hobby is over-saturation.

I grew up during the 80s when sports cards were going strong. That was really a fun time to be a kid as far as card collecting was concerned. As the years went by though, they started coming out with more and more and more! Companies got greedy and everybody wanted a piece of the pie. It got to be too much. It's too much now. Way too much. They never cut back. Now, you can't just enjoy a Topps or Donruss set for what it is with an occasional rare, special insert. Now every pack has to have game used material in it. Some packs are $10 for 4 cards with the chance to get something special.

The mint has done the same thing with the quarters programs. It's too much. Not only are there SO many designs but there's also BILLIONs of quarters produced for every design! Nothing is rare or ever will be. They did the same thing with the Lincoln cent change. A single design change wasn't enough. Not in this day and age. And then a final design change was needed this year.
It says something about what we've become as a society. We need super-saturation to keep people interested. And maybe only for a little while? I think many people miss the days when things were simpler, or at least more basic. Kids today are just used to this over saturation of stuff. Many probably feel entitled to it now.

You guys ever walk down a cereal isle in a typical grocery store? There's got to be about 60 different types of cereal to choose from. I'm amazed every time. Apparently everything has to cater to every small minority to try to keep everybody as happy as possible with nobody feeling 'left out'.

As for kids falling in love with tech stuff..... that only goes so far. I love tech stuff myself. But at 29, I"ve bought and sold quite a bit of stuff already. You find out real fast what electronics are worth, as the years go by. It's pretty ridiculous. I enjoy playing the playstation and the Wii but they are just there. Something to do for fun on the side as a time killer. There is a much more gratifying feeling in buying an old coin. I don't expect them to devalue like electronics. Not anywhere close. Most people will realize this. Even if it takes some growing up to realize it.

They're always making newer and better electronics, thereby devaluing the old equipment. It's also all replaceable.
Old coins are valued for being old, specific to their time period and for being limited in quantity and condition. They aren't making anymore and I believe they will always be desirable. They are like holding onto an identifiable piece of the past like not many other areas can offer. And, for the most part are accessible to most people. We should probably be thankful that collecting is not more popular than it is or many issues that everybody wants would become a lot more expensive in a hurry!

I think we tend to underestimate just how many people are out there. It's easy to come up with a genealization that all the collectors will die off and the younger generation won't care. But there's a lot of young people on this board and some people will always have that collecting bug in their genes. They'll be attracted to the hobby no matter what. The old coinage will always have a feeling of value and purpose.

Sales of coins on ebay seem to be going very strong. Many people have said the coin market is down and still falling. But somehow it's almost impossible to find any coin auction on ebay that has been over-looked, no matter the time of day. No matter the price level. There's actually people guessing at grades of unslabbed coins, fighting against each other and over-paying to get them. Even at midnight. If this is really a down time for collecting with low interest and nobody having disposable income, than I can't wait to see an upswing.

Old baseball cards seemed to have held their value. The old stuff will always be in demand. We live in a throw away society now so there isn't much coming out anymore (that is commonly available to everyone) that will be worth much down the road. Those days are history.