Are Ancient Coins Getting More Popular?

I don't consider ancient coins an investment either. I suppose one could collect at the very top end of the market (rare denarii, aurei, solidi, etc.) and have a decent chance of enjoying the appreciation of those assets. But for me, I like coins that speak to me, whatever their condition. I hope to pass the collection on to my son - or if he is uninterested, make plans to release them on the market so they can be enjoyed by other collectors. Since the coins are thousands of years old they will outlive me and eventually end up in others' hands.

 

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No, I didn't quite spend a gold coin at face value but in 1961 I did buy some really nice fishing equipment from a sporting goods store. The price was $20 and I did not have that cash. I told the guy to hold it for me and I would be back in a couple days, that I had to sell a coin or two from my collection to get the money. He asked what I had and would be selling. He saw that I had a liberty head $10 gold piece. He settled for that. I actually had no idea what I could have gotten for the coin elsewhere.

My father who was born in 1910 told ne that when he was a little boy he would go with my grandfather every Saturday PM (1/2 day's work on Saturdays at the Midvale steel plant in Philly) for lunch at the local watering hole. He would get payed by check from the plant and took it, not to the bank, but that corner taproom. He gave the check to the bartender who payed him in coin, less the nickel for the brew. My father loved this because he would chow down on the free pretzels and dip while the financial transaction went on. My father got used to seeing and using gold and silver coin.

His first job, at 18, was at the same Midvale steel plant and he too got used to and preferred coin to paper. Now in the depression, he didn't see many gold coins in circulation and of course after 1933 not at all, but as conditions improved, having lost his savings in a 1932 bank failure, he squirreled away cash in silver dollars and small gold coins. He had some gold dollars and I think a few $2.50 pieces. I can recall finding silver dollars hidden all over the house but never, never were they spent. When he retired, about 1970, his factory, SKF Ball Bearing, also in Philly would give all retirees one hundred silver dollars, real Morgans and Peace dollars. He was asked if he preferred that money as a check and you can imagine what he said. Unfortunately in a house burglary in the mid 1970's the whole collection was stolen.

 

Double ditto.

Nicely put.

 

I think auction houses will tell you that collecting is more popular than ever, but they have a vested interest in “sharing” that info. I’d like to see feedback from honest sellers just to see their own personal experiences in the market now vs the past.

 

I would guess that for many of us, collecting ancients does start with a fascination with ancient world history. In my case, as an English major, you can add loving mythology and epic literature as well (smartest thing I ever did in college was take an ancient world history course and an epic literature course the same semester -- I could write one paper and adapt it for both courses!). I don't collect world coins (other than bringing some home when I travel), so this may be an ignorant assumption, but it also seems to me that there are more ways to specialize in the world of ancient coins: particular Roman dynasties, particular motifs (I collect coins with dolphins on them, having worked in wild dolphin research at one point), etc. Just my two drachms ....

 

The other day, in the German coins thread in the World Coins forum, I posted photos of the half-dozen German silver thalers I own from the 17th and 18th centuries, and was reminded of how much I like them. So I was curious as to how much coins like that are going for these days, and looked around a little bit on V-coins, MA-shops, and elsewhere. I was shocked at how high the prices are now for coins that all cost me under $200 when I bought them years ago. And many of the ones I saw for sale at very high prices are in considerably lesser condition than mine. The same is even more true of English silver crowns from before Victoria, which I also used to collect but sold them all about five years ago; it seems to be difficult now to buy one in very fine or better condition for less than $1,000.

So as much as people may complain about the rise in prices in ancient coins, I am persuaded that Roman coin-types that aren't rare are still far less expensive in general, even in very fine or better condition, than world coins, let alone U.S. coins. My collecting focus is on the denarius and antoninianus, and you can still build a very extensive collection of very nice coins for under $200 -- in many cases under $100 -- per coin. That may be a lot compared to 10 or 20 years ago, but I still feel like a kid in a candy store looking through the available coins compared to what it feels like to look through early modern world silver coins for sale. Perhaps even more so given that -- unlike for mass-produced struck world coins -- ancient coins have so much individuality even within the same coin-type; it's very rare to find two that are exactly alike.

And I do believe that the relatively low cost, together with the seemingly near-infinite variety of coins available, contribute to any increase in the popularity of ancient coins .

 

Does "Coin Community" (I'm not familiar with it) still exist? Does it have an active ancient coins forum?

 

Yes to both.

 

Sometimes, I come across early modern coins and medals that actually remind me a little of ancient coins in terms of style and/or subject matter, and even in terms of the details in the catalog descriptions. Like this one from 1625 that I've had for many years, commemorating the marriage of Charles I of England to Henrietta Maria of France (daughter of Henri IV):

England 1625, Marriage of Charles I to Henrietta Maria. Obv. Busts face to face; above, celestial rays. He, head bare, is in ruff, doublet buttoned, and George of the Garter suspended to riband; she, hair jewelled, wears earrings, necklace, dress, and stiff ruff, CH. MAG. ET. HEN. MA. BRIT. REX. ET. REG [Charles the Great, and Henrietta Maria, King and Queen of Britain] / Rev. Cupid walking, right, scattering roses and lilies, above, celestial rays, FVNDIT. AMOR. LILIA. MIXTA. ROSIS [Love pours out lilies mixed with roses (alluding to the union of the lilies of France with the roses of England)]; in exergue: 1625. AR 24 mm. Medallic Illustrations of the History of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. I p. 238 No. 1 (1885, reprinted 1969); Eimer 105A.

 

Yes I think many Renaissance and Enlightenment coins take a cue from ancient types. Even today the American Express logo borrows from the Roman Republic.

 

Yes but every time I visit I see at least one really wrong answer given to a newby. Today read:
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=371154
The coin is a common fake and has been shown here repeatedly. I was not one of the ones thrown out but I no longer post there. Coin Talk is better although they have thrown out two of my friends, too.

 

Glad I’m not alone with this sentiment.

 

It will only get worse, with worsening economies, interest rates at near zero percent/ except for banks that charge 18-24% on their credit cards More affluent investors will purchase rare coins as an investment, realizing the market trends for collectibles is on fire. This will cause prices to escalate even more. There are a lot of super rich collectors out there.

 

Perhaps, but if the current virus crisis continues and the economy goes under, many collectors and businesses will be dumping their collections and inventory onto the market for whatever they will fetch in what will quickly become a deflationary market. We could be in, for at least a short term, a fall in the value and price of almost all commodities

 

True, but I hope not the case. The markets are doing well today because of the presumed start of the "flattening of the curve" in some locations.

 

I honestly think that there is a limit to what a collector new to the hobby can enjoy when it comes to US issues. There is the price barrier for key dates and conditions, not a lot of variation within series and pressure to buy slabbed get CAC’d etc. That’s obviously a gloss over the issues but still I liked and still like US coinage but I don’t want to buy one coin per year on my budget. And frankly when it boils down to it it just seems that there isn’t that much to “do” with US coinage.

I love history and I love investigation so ancients are a great fit for me. Figuring out legends, finding references and the first or second example known even for just a variety are exciting. Because of that ongoing research on behalf of most of us, our discussions have more meat to them because a post can prompt an answer from several members or for several members to go and try to find the answer. I think that US coinage has lost a lot of that because of machine striking and intensively studied series. Grade matters but is almost inconsequential when compared to how much grade matters in US. For most of us just finding a scarce issue is pleasure enough. Having a nice grade is great but might price us out of the coin.

Granted like several said I kind of wish some buyers would go away so I could be greedier and buy more of the coins I want. But it’s also a balance. If shops don’t sell then they go out of business and that is bad for everyone.

I like imperial Russian too but starting in the 2000’s it started getting prohibitively expensive so I moved on. I would go back in addition to ancients but I’m thoroughly enjoying myself here.

 

Kind of why I left US coins. I had a pretty nice AU collection, (still have actually), SL halves but it was just BORING. Only so much minutia you can give a crud about. I can get a totally new design every coin with ancients, or collect "series" I make up like "art nouveau late roman bronzes". A budget minded collector can put together the greatest collection in the world of an esoteric field. None of those things are possible with US numismatics anymore, they are simply TOO COLLECTED. All of the fun has been run out of them for me.

I do admit having a little fun with colonial paper. A lot like ancients, important people, you only worry about grade enough to be happy with the note, what it IS is more important than grade, price, etc.

 

A suggestion for beginners:
You may find the 'problem' with US coins exists in ancients, too, but you do not have to play that game unless that is what you prefer. IF, and only if, you are collecting for the coins and not for their investment potential, you can find thousands of decent looking but common ancients to collect without dipping to ugly junkers or running with the big dogs chasing perfect condition rarities. I have nothing to say to beginners who feel the best coin for them is a 12 Caesar set starting with Otho. Buy Vespasian first; Otho can come later. Just because you are limited by budget does not mean you have to have ugly or illegible coins. Look into F-VF coins of the more common rulers that have reverse types you find interesting. For the price of a worn out rarity, you can get mid grade, interesting and attractive coins coins of the people and places that actually made history rather than those that barely make footnotes in history books.
Trajan denarius - common, reasonable, important to history:


Constantine the Great AE3 - common, reasonable, important to history:


Diocletian AE Follis (big coin) - common, reasonable, important to history:


It will be quite a few years before you can sell these coins for a profit but, if your interest in the hobby is the coins themselves and the history they convey rather than the investment value you dream for, you can benefit from the hobby in so very many ways. Think of the money spent as tuition for education or fun money for entertainment. When done, you have memories and a coin to remind you of when you started.

 

@dougsmit I think that there is less of that affliction in ancients than in other areas of collecting though. Or I just don’t experience it in my group of friends.

I do agree that buying decent coins of emperors who actually did something important in world history will provide much more satisfaction at a more reasonable price.

 

I think there's just more to talk about. Ancients are so very interesting. Also, there are some tremendous resources in this group.