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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Midas, post: 70103, member: 2761&quot;]Speedy...laser scanning and computer aided designs (CAD for short) don&#039;t have &quot;feelings&quot;.&nbsp; Data is nothing more than a string of One&#039;s and Zero&#039;s but make no mistake about this, math is exact.&nbsp; 2 plus 2 equals 4.&nbsp; 2 minus 1 equals 1.&nbsp; There are no other answers.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>You may think grading is a hobby in itself, but when hundreds, if not thousands of dollars are involved, people want more assurances than what a seller &quot;feels&quot; his coin is graded compared to what a buyer &quot;feels&quot; the coin should be.&nbsp; Hence the free market response to the evolution and success of TPG&#039;s.&nbsp; It wasn&#039;t the buyer&#039;s opinion or the seller&#039;s opinion...it was the third partied grading company&#039;s which are so suppose to grade/authenticate submissions with no interest to either party.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>You may want to argue that point, but try selling a 1909-S VDB 1c based on <u>your</u> opinion against one in a PCGS or NGC slab.&nbsp; The coin in the PCGS/NGC AU58 slab (for instance) will sell for substantially more than your coin and your opinion of AU58.</p><p><br /></p><p>Still, as you state, nobody or no machine is going to tell you what the coin is. That may be fine for you but try taking that attitude with a buyer or seller of a coin.&nbsp; A seller may think it is MS65 and you think it is MS63.&nbsp; &quot;Don&#039;t tell me it is a MS65!&quot; may be your response and there lies the problem.&nbsp; Do you call in a third person?&nbsp; Do you tell the seller that his opinion of the grade is garbage?&nbsp; Do you tell him that you know more than he does? Or do you take it to a TPG table like ANACS who tells you it is a MS64 and you are BOTH wrong...in his opinion of course!</p><p><br /></p><p>Also you are right...I never seen a F19 grade, but F grades DO range from F12 to F19 whereby VF starts at 20 and goes to 39.&nbsp; Sure you will never see a VF37, but you do see grades like AU53.&nbsp; Why is there a AU53 but not a F17?&nbsp; Maybe that coin has more eye appeal than a AU50.</p><p><br /></p><p><b><i>[&quot;People agree on somethings...but nobody will ever agree with everything...and they will never agree with the grade on the slab OR on the computer.</i></b></p><p><b><i><br /></i></b></p><p><b><i>People have always bickered about grading...they have agreed and disagree with each others grading...and they will bickered with a computer grade...a computer is NOT 100% MS70...perfect.&quot;]</i></b></p><p><br /></p><p>Well that&#039;s like I am taking my ball home and nobody can play anymore because I can&#039;t support my argument.</p><p><br /></p><p>Just imagine you are in front of Judge Judy on People&#039;s Court and you are suing for damages.&nbsp; You tell Judge Judy that it is your opinion that the coin in question is worth ____ dollars because your opinion of the grade is _____.&nbsp; She will ask you if you have any supporting documents that support your opinion of worth and grade.&nbsp; You tell her...it is my opinion because no company or no machine is going to tell me otherwise.</p><p><br /></p><p>She then looks to the defendant and asks the same question and the defendent (me) provides documentation from the likes of NGC or PCGS.&nbsp; Also, I provide prices realized from a number of sources showing the court that the coin has recently obtained ____ dollars in the same grade as questioned.</p><p><br /></p><p>She then looks back at you and asks if you have any other means to prove your case and you tell her, &quot;this is how I feel&quot;.</p><p><br /></p><p>&lt;I can hear the court&#039;s hammer closing the proceedings.&gt;</p><p><br /></p><p>**********************************************************</p><p><br /></p><p><b><i>[Midas let me ask you a question - do you or don&#039;t you agree that not all MS64 graded coins are equal?]</i></b></p><p><br /></p><p>No they are not equal...hence the need for objective standardization.&nbsp; We see things differantly.&nbsp; Ask one person to describe color and then another.&nbsp; There lies just one of the problems.&nbsp; One coin may have contact marks and the other may have scuff or bag marks.&nbsp; The hobby has tried to govern themselves as to what are the parameters of a MS64 coin +/-.&nbsp; Some coins will fall above the median and others below, but within the parameters of the grade...whatever that may be and by whose standards.</p><p><br /></p><p>Take color for instant.&nbsp; The human eye can detect color changes no lower than Delta E 1.0 to 1.5.&nbsp; We have color measuring devices that you see at Home Depot and auto body shops that can detect color differances to Delta E .001.&nbsp; Bottom line is that they can measure and document color 1000 times better than what we see with the human eye!</p><p><br /></p><p><b><i>[Now I am going to assume, based on what I know of your knowledge and experience, that you would answer - they are not all equal.]</i></b></p><p><br /></p><p>Which is the great thing about math.&nbsp; Adding or subtracting numbers will give you real numbers, not opinions. </p><p><br /></p><p><b><i>[But let me ask the question in a different way - are all examples of a given coin graded as MS64, by the same company - worth the same amount of money?]</i></b></p><p><br /></p><p>There are two basic components to coin grading...technical grading and eye appeal.&nbsp; I am all for a standardization for technical grading where the use of today&#039;s technology can scan surfaces for nicks, contact marks, etc.&nbsp; The greater the differance, the lower the technical grade.</p><p><br /></p><p>Second in regards to eye appeal, you could address it just like Delta E values.&nbsp; The greater the color differance, the lower the &quot;eye appeal&quot; grade...OR...since there is market for rainbow or toned specimens, you can go the other way too!&nbsp; The greater the color differance (when you account for Red, Green or Blue color values), the higher the grade.</p><p><br /></p><p><b><i>[But what creates these grades within grades - what causes one coin to be high end and the other low end ? It can be several things - one coin may have one less mark in a prime focal area. It may have slightly better luster or better eye appeal. Or one coin may be pleasingly toned and the other not so pleasingly toned. Or one coin may have a slightly better strike than the other.</i></b></p><p><b><i><br /></i></b></p><p><b><i>All of these things play a part in determining high end - from low end. Wouldn&#039;t you agree ?]</i></b></p><p><br /></p><p>Absolutely...which is all the reason to establish a &quot;given&quot; for the coin, for that specific mint strike, and for that specific year.&nbsp; Compare the given database of our &quot;standard&quot; coin to the submitted coin and you will obtain hardcore <u>real</u> data...not opinions.&nbsp; After the technical data is compared, you would then look at the eye appeal components...even though there is other instrumentation available today to measure that too! (like reflection, specific colors, luster, etc.)</p><p><br /></p><p>As numismatics evolved from grading terms like &quot;Fine&quot; to F12 or F15 (where F15 is obviously better), so too will hardcore data replace opinions and adjectives for coin grading.&nbsp; I look at it similar to DNA science.&nbsp; Finger prints provided law enforcement with a great tool to identify criminals.&nbsp; It wasn&#039;t perfect, but then DNA evidence was introduced.&nbsp; Unless you have a O.J. Simpson dream team of lawyers, try to argue against those conclusions!</p><p><br /></p><p>Sure beats somebody&#039;s opinion if they are on a witness stand![/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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