Apparent Fraud

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by ToughCOINS, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    While at the FUN Show I received an order for a coin on my website, payment for which would be by money order. I emailed the buyer that I was away, but would be back in the office Monday, and would process the order once the deposit cleared my account. He indicated that, since there'd be a delay, he'd appreciate Express Mail service, and was willing to pay extra for that.

    I received the MO yesterday, and noted that it looked okay to me, but not great. It was issued not by the USPS or by Western Union, but by Sigue Corporation. It had a fairly crude look to it, but I figured that might be attributable to being issued by a second-tier service. Some upstarts and low budget operations use obsolete equipment to contain their expenses.

    Because I've always been wary of falsification of money orders, I called Sigue Corporation to validate the MO serial number and amount of the funds to be claimed, but was told I'd have to call a different number during regular business hours. An hour ago I called that number, and the automated system informed me that the MO was made out for $100 more than the one in my hand, and it cleared the cashing bank on the very day mine was issued . . . I'm holding an altered reproduction of a genuine money order!

    So, now that I know I've got a bad apple on the other end, I want to have a little fun . . . I have some ideas, but am open to your suggestions as to how to handle this "buyer".

    Your thoughts? Nothing illegal, mind you . . . just fun.

    Mike
     
    serafino, eddiespin, NSP and 3 others like this.
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  3. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Envelope full of glitter
     
    green18, NSP, Kentucky and 6 others like this.
  4. PaddyB

    PaddyB Eccentric enthusiast

    Do you have a reasonable counterfeit of whatever he ordered? "One bad coin deserves another..."

    If not, maybe a photocopy of the coin he ordered? As he sent you a copy of a genuine money order.
     
  5. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Occasionally I receive calls from people in India claiming to be the IRS and if I don't pay my delinquent tax amount of (enter figure here), I immediately respond, "Yes sir. My name is Friday. Joe Friday with the FBI. May I have your name please?".... They always rapidly hang up and hopefully they think hard before they make the next bogus IRS call... I would love it if you could use the opportunity to make the purchaser believe he was caught somehow.
     
    serafino, eddiespin, green18 and 6 others like this.
  6. mynamespat

    mynamespat Well-Known Member

    Turn it over to authorities?
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  7. Evan8

    Evan8 A Little Off Center

    Shouldnt you turn the fake money order into the local police department? The customer is clearly committing fraud and if they have done this once, they have probably done it before as well.

    I mean depending on the amount and whether or not this was across state lines, this would be a felony, wouldnt it?
     
  8. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Like @Evan8 said I would send him a copy of the police report.
     
    NSP, ripple, jb10000lakes and 6 others like this.
  9. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer A Caretaker, can't take it with me

    Tell him because you delayed the order you'd like to personally hand deliver the coin since you're going to be in his 'backyard' on business. Make the criminal squirm.
     
    slackaction1, ripple and spirityoda like this.
  10. mynamespat

    mynamespat Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty sure creating a counterfeit money order is a felony by itself. I can't see any good come from playing games with a criminal unless you, yourself, are willing to act like a criminal. I wouldn't even let them know it was I who reported. There is no reason to purposefully turn myself into this person's mark. People are crazy.
     
  11. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    You don't want to do this, then you can be accused of selling counterfeits. Best case, offsetting penalties, replay the down. A copy of the police report you file, sent by certified mail, should do the trick, assuming he doesn't get a knock at the door before it arrives.
     
    Rassi, PlanoSteve, green18 and 9 others like this.
  12. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    If he mailed the money order to you, the Postal Inspection Service might have an interest in him.
     
    Rassi, PlanoSteve, green18 and 6 others like this.
  13. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I'd balance the temptation to have fun against the risk of angering a criminal.

    Was the order by chance from overseas? If so, it probably isn't worth pursuing. If it came from within the US, it might be worthwhile to bring down some heat on the perp.
     
    green18, ripple, Paul M. and 2 others like this.
  14. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    It's bank and mail fraud. Punishable by 5 years in prison and $10,000 in fines (from THE FIRM :D ).
     
    Rassi, eddiespin, green18 and 4 others like this.
  15. Corn Man

    Corn Man Well-Known Member

    send him a literal box of rocks
     
    Railguy and green18 like this.
  16. NewbietoCoins

    NewbietoCoins Well-Known Member

    1st off - Care to share your website so I can look at what you have? I would love to purchase coins from dealers on the forum

    2nd - I am the AVP of a bank and we get calls all the time of cashier's checks and money orders that are apparently drawn off of us but are fake. It's annoying.

    3rd - Package full of glitter.
     
    GoldFinger1969, Kentucky and ripple like this.
  17. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    @ToughCOINS

    Sometimes playing with fire will result in you getting burned. I'd avoid playing games with this POS and just turn the whole thing over to the police. ~ Chris
     
  18. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    If the OP really wants to get back at the POS, maybe you could arrange to send him an exploding die pack that he could put in the envelope instead of the coin. ~ Chris
     
  19. Jeffjay

    Jeffjay Well-Known Member

    I would probably just ignore it as well as his attempts to contact you. It would be interesting to see how much he complains about not receiving a coin that he did not pay for. You could post his responses here for our amusement.
     
    kazuma78 and ripple like this.
  20. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    This is mildly amusing, since I remember my first purchase from Mike was via MO (PCGS MS65 Lexington half dollar). Of course, mine was real, and came from the post office.... :p

    Mike, since you're obviously not going to attempt to cash the MO, I don't think there's much risk of you being caught up in a fraud charge yourself. I'd avoid sending anything coin-related, especially a counterfeit, but, beyond that, anything that's legal to mail seems fair game.

    Personally? I'd just wait and see if the fraudster contacts you about not receiving the coin, and then keep them on the hook as long as possible. Maybe you could get some ideas from this site: https://www.419eater.com/
     
  21. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I ask for their badge number. They usually have a (bogus) one. Then I ask what service center they are calling from. The fake badge number never is correct for whatever service center they claim. Then they argue with me, etc etc. I figure the longer I waste their time, the less they can bother others.

    For anyone on the internet reading this, the IRS will NEVER, EVER call you. I worked with the Taxpayer Advocacy Panel, and every employee of the IRS will tell you the same thing. Do not fall for this con.
     
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