Anyone know what the new guy looks like? Gordian III as Balbinus

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Orange Julius, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    Some coins from the first issue of Gordian III's reign seem to retain some of the features or head shape of Balbinus (mine does somewhat). Portraits of the impish looking Gordian that we all know and love exist within these first issue coins, so the carryover of features didn't last long.

    Did the mint not have a likeness to work from? Or... had the mint just gotten used to doing their best Balbinus. Either way, these portrait 'transition' coins are fun (GIII to Balbinus, Claudius II to Aurelian, etc.).

    Let's see your early Gordian portraits... or let's see your early portraits of other emperors that look like someone else.
    GordianIIIRIC5.jpg
    Gordian III
    Rome, 238
    Obverse: IMP CAES M ANT GORDIANVS AVG Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust of Gordian III to right, seen from behind.
    Rev. VICTORIA AVG Victory advancing left, holding wreath and palm branch.
    Cohen 357. RIC 5.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    This is Gordian as caesar, when his grandfather and uncle Gordian I and II had died, and Balbinus and Pupienus were still alive - between April 22 and July 29, 238 that is. His portrait is bland and he still has puppy fat - but probably the celators just didn't know how the boy looked. (And a horrible time it must have been for him).


    3283 Gordian Caesar.jpg

    Tetradrachm Gordian III (238-244) as Caesar, Alexandria. Year 1 (=238). Obv. Bare head, draped and cuirassed, t.r., M ANT GORDIANOS KAIS. Rev. Nike seated t.l., holding wreath, year A. Greyish billon with slightly silvery patina. 21 mm, 12.23 gr. Emmett 3385 var. (obverse legend).
     
  4. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Is this Alexander Severus?

    Maximinus Thrax denarii.jpg

    No, it's Maximinus Thrax! Though you'd be forgiven for thinking at first glance that it was Alexander Severus.

    If I had to guess, while the celator was finishing a die of Alexander Severus,word came down that Maximinus was now emperor, so the celator slightly modified the die of Alexander Severus (probably wasn't even sure what his new emperor looked like yet, so he portrayed Thrax as an older A. Severus).
     
  5. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    i love these types of transitional coins! :)
     
    Orange Julius likes this.
  6. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    That's a lovely coin, @Orange Julius , and that Victoria reverse is astonishingly well-rendered! Neat idea for a thread, too. Here's my contribution.

    We know this is the first issue of Julia Soaemias. It can be dated to AD 218 because the corresponding aureus (BMCRE 39) predates Elagabalus' return later that year to the reduced aureus standard of Caracalla. @curtislclay postulates that the mint apparently erroneously thought that Soaemias rather than Julia Maesa (Elagabalus' grandmother) was the predominant lady in Elagabalus' family, for there was no corresponding early issue of coins at Rome for Maesa.

    [​IMG]
    Julia Soaemias, Mother of Elagabalus, AD 218-222.
    Roman AR Denarius, 2.65 g, 18.6 mm, 5 h.
    Rome, AD 218.
    Obv: IVLIA SOAEMIAS AVGVSTA, bare-headed and draped bust right.
    Rev: IVNO REGINA, Juno, veiled, standing right, holding scepter and Palladium.
    Refs: RIC 237; BMCRE 41-43; Cohen 3; RCV 7718; CRE 464.
    Notes: Only 7 specimens in Reka Devnia hoard.

    Note that Julia Soaemias here looks more like another Severan woman of her generation, Plautilla, who had been married to her first cousin, Caracalla. She looks much more matronly on later portraits:

    Soaemias Venus Caelestis Standing Denarius.jpg
    Julia Soaemias, Augusta AD 218-222.
    Roman AR Denarius, 3.02 g, 19.2 mm.
    Rome, AD 320-322.
    Obv: IVLIA SOAEMIAS AVG, bare-headed and draped bust, r.
    Rev: VENVS CAELESTIS, Venus diademed and standing l., holding apple and scepter; in right field a star.
    Refs: RIC 341; BMCRE 49; RCV 7719 var.; Cohen 8.
     
    Marsyas Mike, galba68, Ryro and 5 others like this.
  7. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Vespasian looking like Otho Vespasian 13.jpg
     
    Marsyas Mike, galba68, Ryro and 8 others like this.
  8. tenbobbit

    tenbobbit Well-Known Member

    This Macrinus from Cibyra, Phrygia looks a lot like the ( hoof hearted ) portrait of Caracalla.
    60214[1].jpg
     
  9. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    The Gordian III OP coin definitely resembles Balbinus more than Gordian. Just check out this Gerber baby portrait of Balbinus...

    balbinus1.jpg

    balbinus2.jpg
     
    Marsyas Mike, galba68, Ryro and 6 others like this.
  10. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Yes, from these two one can see the Balbinus influence compared to the "impish" one that is usually found. Both weigh in at 3.9 grams, IMG_0718[2139]both Gordions.jpg though one seems to have had a chunk taken out of the flan. Is it possible to determine what mints issued these mid Third century double denarii?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  11. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    Great coins everyone!

    I love that Gordian as Caesar, a snapshot at a short moment in time! I've been looking for a Gordian as Caesar in my price range for a long time and have yet to find the right coin.

    It looks like this one was started as AS... then there was a new guy! The back of the head and maybe the smile reminds me of AS while the rest is an attempt at a likeness of someone they didn't really know what they looked like.

    Interesting! I don't know Julia Soaemias' portraits very well but I should... I'll be looking for one now.

    Great coin Bing! I have yet to take the plunge on buying an Otho... maybe Vespasian as Otho is the way to go! A very interesting moment in history.

    That portrait sure has the Caracalla 'tough guy' look huh? Those provincial coins of that era are great.

    Oooh... I was eyeing that coin too before you bought it. A great score. If you're going to have one coin of Balbinus, that's the one to have!

    Nice Gordians! That one on the left looks much older than it should... for sure a carryover from earlier portrait traits. It is possible to determine mints by style. Look at a lot of coins from Rome and Antioch (or eastern mint) and you'll start to see some style differences. Rome is more classic and realistic, while the eastern mints are a bit more stylized. The problem is that portraits already had started to vary so much and become a little less exact. The crisis of the third century on the way!
     
    Roman Collector likes this.
  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Since the mint at Rome had made Gordian III as Caesar coins that look like the boy, I can't accept the idea that the resemblence to Balbinus was do to not knowing the face. That leaves the idea proposed by Sallent that a partly finished die was altered. Gordian as Balbinus are not all that rare but I have not seen a Gordian as Pupienus. Why???

    Gordian III Caesar sestertius
    ro0640bb2238.jpg
     
  13. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    That is true! I hadn't yet learned enough about the timeline or coins to understand what may be possible about the mint and his likeness.

    I wonder if there were some Balbinus dies lying around without legends yet added, just portraits and those portraits may have been re-engraved with Gordian's face and legends. I have no idea but that's the great thing about this hobby, another rabbit hole of learning for... whenever my 2 year old son lets me have time!
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    ancient coin hunter likes this.
  14. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    Aurelian looking 95% like Claudius II
    Aurelian Concordia.jpg

    An interesting one... Victorinus skipping right over Marius and looking like Postumus
    20190115_085239.jpg
     
  15. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    Oh and by the way... that's a really awesome coin. Exactly how long was he Caesar for? (I'll ask the Googles too.)

    *Added: 22 April – 29 July 238 as Caesar
    According to Wiki.
     
    Ryro likes this.
  16. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Great victorinus coin @Finn235 - gotta admit that it is a portrait of postumus!
     
    Roman Collector likes this.
  17. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

     
  18. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    I would think this one is early, but not Balbinus early:
    Gordian III. 238-244 AD. AR Antoninianus (4.46 gm). Rome mint. 1st emission, 238 AD. Obv: Radiate, draped, and cuirassed bust right. Rev: Fides standing facing, head left, holding standard and scepter. RIC IV 1; RSC 86. A great boyish portrait.
    GordianIIIAntFides.jpg
     
  19. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

    I find this first Philip sestertius suspiciously resembles the Gordian one whereas the second Philip clearly does not. Philip was very well known in the court of Gordian III at the time of succession ( I believe he was a praetorian prefect?). Could this be a case of a hastily re-engraved die? 4090659.jpg 4090661.jpg gk4N5pCRH7sA3aDemS6e2nrMB8ynYJ.jpg
     
  20. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    Wow... those are some great coins! That second one looks like Gordian if he would have made it a few more years.

    I really wish there was more contemporary information on his reign.

    I also wish there was more information on his tomb that was said to be near Circesium, Persia. The information I've been able to find says it was inscribed, "To the deified Gordian, conqueror of the Persians, conqueror of the Goths, conqueror of the Sarmatians, queller of mutinies at Rome, conqueror of the Germans, but no conqueror of Phillipi." ...the inscription is said to have been destroyed by Licinius who "who may have claimed descent from Philip, so removed what could be construed as suggesting that he had committed regicide." (although the "Phillipi" referenced was probably not Philip but where he was defeated or killed.) Source: http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Gordian_III#cite_note-6
     
    Pellinore likes this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page