Anyone ever hear of a dealer named Davis & Clark in Paris in the '70s?

I hope you realize that in posting the document I was sent I wasn't suggesting that the "Certificat de Garantie" for my coin has any independent value except as documentation of my coin's provenance back to 1975, which of course has some value when taken together with the coin itself. I wouldn't attempt to use it as proof of authenticity, but I don't think there's any question as to my coin's authenticity in the first place.

As far as the value such a certificate might have had in 1975 is concerned, I think you may be going too far in suggesting that it was worthless. In the first place, these certificates -- complete with thread and wax seal! -- obviously enabled this dealer to sell its coins for higher prices than they would have sold for without them, so in the sense of market value alone they were obviously worth something at the time. In terms of whether they would been accepted back then as evidence of authenticity, I see nothing wrong with using "agreed experts" outside of Paris if they were known experts, even assuming that the dealer was the one who suggested them. Nobody has successfully identified the Dr. Cahn of Basel named on my certificate, but as for the certificate posted by @Roman Collector naming Xavier Calico of Barcelona and Hans Schulman of New York as experts, surely you've heard of the famous Calico* firm of numismatists in Barcelona? See these excerpts at the Newman Numismatic Portal from Coin World articles published in 1979 and 1983 (one of them written by Hans Schulman himself):

Coin World [11/07/1979] (pg. 80)
11/7/1979

COIN WORLD Wednesday November 7 1979 Page 80 Sons follow in dealer dad s footsteps By Hans M F Schulman Ithough Javier calico passed away 27 years ago it seems as if he is still alive His sons Xavier and Fernando kept their father s office just the way it was when he left His desk with the feather pen his closet with all the contracts and documents he signed everything as if he is still around His sons who are among numisma tists belonging to the most famous honor their father who really established the famous . . . .

Coin World [01/19/1983] (pg. 3)
1/19/1983

COIN WORLD Wednesday January 19 1983 I The many faces of Xavier calico over the years in Barcelona Collectors mourn Madrid Basel Paris Bern Los Angeles and New York City F Xavier Calico Numismatists around the world are mourn ing the death on Jan 1 of numismatist Xavier Calico Barcelona Spain He was a victim of cancer Services for Mr Calico were held in Bar celona on Jan 2 He is survived by his widow a brother and two nephews partners in the famous . . . .

(See https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/searchwithterms?searchterm=calico.)


Hans Schulman was also a very well-known dealer in his time; see the articles at https://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v08n25a17.html (entitled "Remembrances of Hans M.F. Schulman," from 2005) and at http://www.neilsberman.com/pdf/H_Schulman_International_Numismatic_Extraordinaire.pdf, a lengthy article entitled "Hans M.F. Schulman, International Numismatist Extraordinaire," from a publication called Coin Age Magazine -- which I confess I never heard of, but which was apparently active for many decades after its founding in 1964. Unfortunately, the pdf is upside-down as it appears at the link, so one has to download it to read it. Here's the first page, turned right side up:




* Since the Xavier Calico who was apparently the expert named on the Davis & Clark certificate died in 1983, he can hardly be charged with the dubious practices reflected in certain books published under the Calico name in more recent decades; see the thread at Forvm Ancient Coins from 2010 at http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=61331.0 , with comments by our own @curtislclay, @Andrew McCabe, and @Volodya (Phil Davis).

 

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I’ve never heard of them. Cucumbers’ statement should be helpful and telling. Kind of a interesting name for a French coin dealer ? Maybe they’re English, and were working in Paris? Nice coin though.

 

Wow why did you have to write all that to respond to me?! My comment was in the line the certificate is as valid at the ones some infamous sellers on ebay are accompanying their coins with.

The expert did not sign the certificate, the president of the company signed with no name underneath. It's like someone today creates a certificate saying Murphy said it's genuine.

Cahn implies Herbert Cahn, but it could be Jack the ripper Cahn in the way an auction house recently misused the name of Pozzi for provenance

 

The Cahn's were the owners of "Munzen und Medaillen AG", a well known dealer in Basel.

 

I have a coin thats from Schulman.

More about him:
http://www.neilsberman.com/schulman.htm


Mariniana (254 - 258 A.D.)
AR Antoninianus
O: DIVAE MARINIANAE, Veiled and draped bust right, set on crescent.
R: CONSECRATIO, Apotheosis of Mariniana: Mariniana, raising hand and holding scepter, reclining left on peacock flying upward to the right.
Rome Mint
22mm
3.3g
RIC 6

Ex Hans Schulman April 21, 1962

 

Ummm, first: another truly FANTASTIC coin @DonnaML!!!
You never cease to amaze with your taste in ancients and yet again I still am dazzled and blown away by this one
And B: a certificate from half a century ago surely adds value and yours is very fun
Im working on a thread, soon to come, aaand I'm overt the moon that my coin has scribbles on the envelope... led alone a fancy cert and seal!
To keep it legal, here's a recent RR of mine that also hassome wonderful toning:

Cn. Lentulus Clodianus. 88 BC. AR Denarius (19mm, 3.0 g, 4h). Rome mint. Helmeted bust of Mars right, seen from behind, wearing balteus over right shoulder with parazonium, vertical spear behind left shoulder / Victory driving galloping biga right, holding wreath and reins; CN • LENTVL in exergue. Crawford 345/1; Sydenham 702; Cornelia 50; BMCRR Rome 2440-2; RBW 1312. VF, attractive cabinet toning. Ex: Timeline

 

You're still missing the main point, which is that the "validity" of the certificate in 1975 is completely irrelevant to its current significance and to the reason I posted it.

The reason I posted all that stuff about who the "experts" were is that I thought people might find it interesting historically. As far as your other point is concerned, you're right that the references to those experts could have been fraudulent. Then again, if the dealer were dishonest, it could just as easily have provided forged signatures for those experts.

 

with THCoins help I found the Dr. Cahn we are searching for , he worked for Adolph E. Cahn the first one on my list
http://numismatics.org/magazine/cahnsummer02/

 

Thanks!

 

Mr Cahn was a famous swiss numismatic and head of the auction hause Monnaies
et Medailles S.A. in Basel

 

Your original post ended with:
"Has anyone ever heard of this dealer, or of the practice of providing a "Certificat de Garantie" based on the opinion of an "agreed expert"?"

So be careful what you ask for because you may not like the answers

 

I asked if anyone had heard of this practice. Not for your gratuitous opinion, expressed so dismissively, of what the certificates were worth as evidence of authenticity in 1975.

 

Maybe it is simply evidence of previous provenance? Could your coin have come from Monnaies et Medailles S.A. in a prior sale? Since "Davis and Clark" were prolific resellers, that would be my first assumption.

 

A reasonable assumption, I think. But who knows, really? I'm happy just to be able to trace my coin back to 1975! I don't expect anything further.

 

Wonderful coin, Donna! I really enjoy having these bits of ephemera that give insight into an ancient coin's modern history. Cool!

 

Actually there is huge value to a 1975 certificate, it proves it was legally exported from Italy before the MOU was signed...

 

The most important: it is a very nice coin!

If this may interest you, I also have a Roman Republic denarius which comes from a seller with the same practices, in the 1970s (unfortunately I forgot the name of this seller, but the presentation, the wax seals and the signatures were made to impress the naive buyer).
After the buyer (not me) realized that he had paid his coins 5 times the market price, he was sickened by it, stopped all buying and resell his few coins at the normal price.

Here is the one he sold me, in 1980.

 

I see what you're saying. Very clever -- since it was almost certainly minted in Italy, it must have gotten from Italy to France somehow at some unknown time in the last 2000 years, but clearly before 1975. Should I ever happen to have the coin with me on a trip to Italy, I'd better bring the certificate along too so I can bring it back!