Anybody collect Gold Certificates ?

Discussion in 'Paper Money' started by GoldFinger1969, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    I will take this one over a 65 any day of the week ! front centering is a little of
    But it runs almost even and not pushed over to one side like 65,s are known for
    And the back side is just barely off but easy on the eyes :)
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest

    to hide this ad.
  3. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Agreed, but what about when you are off way high or way low on the grade ? As will become apparent shortly.....:D

    Sometimes you miss something and it's an honest mistake...other times you're simply not good enough on that particular bill/note....other times, you're WAY OFF for whatever reason.
  4. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    GUESS THE GRADE: And here it is....and I think this thread will be the subject of some debate going forward:

    1928 $10 Gold FR #2400 front.jpg
    1928 $10 Gold FR #2400 back.jpg
    mpcusa and TheFinn like this.
  5. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    OK, my comments:

    (1) First, thanks to all for the guesses and comments. I know I learned a few things.

    (2) When I won this bill, I myself thought it LOOKED ALOT BETTER than a PMG 45....but I figured I was just missing something. Clearly, some of you think it looks better also. :D

    (3) I can easily detect the low-60's usually because they suffer from lousy margins/off-centering. This bill doesn't seem to have any MAJOR imperfections that drop it down 15-20 numbers from mint grading. I can't see folds or creases or tears.

    (4) If there are some paper bends or other blemishes, they must be only visible at some weird portion of the light spectrum at some particular angle. Because I can't see it. Can any of you now that you know the grade ?

    Net-net....I thought this bill, at first glance, could be a PMG 65....but clearly, there must be something wrong for it to be 20 numbers lower. I just can't see it and apparently neither can some of you.

    These are high-res photos so it's not like the pics are hiding something behind poor photography.

    Maybe something shows up if you hold it up to a certain light at a certain angle ? I dunno....I'm admittedly grasping at straws.:D

    You'd think grading bills would be EASIER than coins (bigger, easier to see imperfections).:D
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  6. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I'm not seeing ANY folds or creases or rounded corners, but maybe under some strange light spectrum at a certain angle, it shows. Which, unlike lousy margins, makes it unusual to penalize a bill for: unseeable imperfections ? :D

    One Caveat: I noticed that other Gold Certificates in the 40's and 50's also looked like they shoul be graded much higher. So this anomaly with my bill or grading error or's not peculiar to this $10 GC. Either their are creases or folds or other paper damage that I/we are not seeing...corners don't meet the definition of (razor) sharp...or something.

    I've seen it on many GC's, but haven't seen enough of other bills (non-GC's) to say if the same 60's vs. 40's dichotomy (with the latter looking like they should be graded much higher) exists.

    If it's a grading pattern (or anomaly), I would say it should.
  7. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    First i would have to say that its difficult to judge a note purely by picture
    as you only get one angle, these notes are judged from several different
    View points but with that said, i thought we were talking about a GEM note
    Here and only looking at the margins, but obviously was more problem
    Laden and that,s something you cant judge by a picture.

    If you go by PMG guidelines, you can see if they got it right, here,s there
    Definition for a 45

    Choice Extremely Fine 45
    A note with two to three heavy folds, one of which may be horizontal.

    There is noway you can see any folds in this note from the pic provided
    Can you ?

    I would like to go in to more detail and explanation, since your note
    Had folds in it it automatically drops and the margins become less
    of a concern, this note here illustrates my point.


    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  8. James Shields

    James Shields Active Member

    It’s all in the lighting and the angle of the lighting.

    D2139000-6B57-4204-A986-A1E94E348085.jpeg E71D7C79-7718-465A-9CF3-F92E8CA93C63.jpeg
    GoldFinger1969 and Rheingold like this.
  9. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    James, what are you doing in the 2nd photo that shows all those wrinkles ???

    I just looked at the bill again super-closely. The 4 corners look sharp, if not super-razor sharp. I'm not seeing any waves or creases. I'm really stumped.o_O

    I'll take the bill to FUN in a few months and you guys can see it for yourselves. But again....I see similar notes in the 40's and 50's on Ebay and Heritage that look like they can be 20 or 10 number grades higher. High-res pics will show -- or NOT show -- the same blemish-free surface that mine appears to have.

    Maybe the grader was drunk ? :D
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  10. James Shields

    James Shields Active Member

    Side lighting. Put your light source to shine across the note.

    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  11. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I did....nothing.:mad:

    I am really baffled. o_O MPC posted the guidelines for bills in the 40's and 50's and I am not seeing those flaws. Again, this is NOT limited to my GC....any of the Heritage GC's up for auction appear as good or better despite being graded well under the PMG 65 neighborhood to what my eyes -- and many of yours -- thought the bill was in.

    Again, maybe in person some of you vets would see some flaws. I'm not seeing them myself. I'll definitely bring it to FUN and we can see what the hell is up.:D
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  12. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    TPG,S are not perfect, and they do make mistakes ! just because of the shear
    Volume that they grade, i think your example is allot better then the 45 given
    and i would have to question the lack of the EPQ designation.

    Here,s the definition on that:

    An Exceptional Paper Quality (EPQ) note is, in the opinion of PMG graders, completely original. EPQ notes will not have been physically, chemically, or materially processed to give the appearance of a higher grade. Notes exhibiting normal wear-and-tear for their grade are eligible. All notes graded Very Fine 25 and higher will be evaluated for the EPQ designation. Notes must qualify for the EPQ designation to grade Gem Uncirculated 65 and higher.

    I would also consider resubmitting the note for a second opinion
    And a note from the grader on why it received that grade, atleast
    You would know why :)

    but i would have to say it is very puzzling not getting an EPQ
    designation might have something to do with the over all grade.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  13. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't you think it unlikely that a note that grades 45 would get EPG ? If a note that low had EPQ, it wouldn't grade 45. Circular logic, I know...:D

    I would think Au 58 minimum....if not the mid-60's.
  14. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    My example earlier in the thread the 40PPQ note, hits home the fact
    On the paper quality and condition of the note, to take it a step further


    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  15. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

  16. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    So even it noticeably less grade both of these have the PPQ designation
    I have even seen VF25PPQ.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  17. James Shields

    James Shields Active Member

    I’ve got a 15PPQ
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  18. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  19. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Here's a $10 Gold Certificate up for sale.....I can very easily see the dirty smudge on the left side and the crease/fold in the middle. They're very visible.

    Yet the bill grades 53 vs. my 45 !! o_O

    I'm not seeing it....

    I'm not sure any side-lighting will show in my 45 the multiple wrinkles that James' bill above showed. I mean, it's encased in plastic.
  20. SteveInTampa

    SteveInTampa Always Learning

    My one and only Gold Certificate. I’ve never been a big fan of the design or portrait. Bought it raw many years ago from a LCS for under $100.

    midas1 and GoldFinger1969 like this.
  21. AJefferson

    AJefferson Member

    Just rencently aquired this one out of an old family stash. Just sent it off to be graded. It is an old military bond note that Dr. Sun Yat-Sen (signed SUn Wen) sold to help fund the revolution of The Republic of China from 1894 to 1911.

    GoldFinger1969 and midas1 like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page