Any cool foreign Coins here?

I guess I should have written New 5p, New 10p and New 50p to remove any ambiguity. I realize that the smaller coins are still legal tender, but I was very surprised to find that their larger predecessors had been demonetized. It sounds like a bad way to run a monetary system to me. It certainly would not give me any confidence in holding on to base metal tokens that may be deemed worthless by government whim.

 

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Sounds like a perfectly normal way to me. Once new notes or coins have been issued, the older ones may be used for a transitional period, and are then taken out of circulation. At least here in Europe pretty much every country does that - and we are not talking about currency reforms here.

And yes, in some cases that even means the older pieces cannot be redeemed any more. In the UK for example, the Bank of England will redeem pound sterling notes "forever"; not coins however. In Switzerland many old franken/franc coins and notes are not legal tender any more, but most can still be exchanged into current money. All this has been common for many years, and the redemption periods are not in any way secret. If you don't like the concept, don't bring foreign cash back home, or use plastic only.

Christian

 

As I said, I think it's a bad way to run a monetary system. Unless there's a major change in government, say from wartime occupation to peacetime democracy, a country should redeem indefinitely those tokens that it has foisted upon its citizens to accept as money. In the United States, for example, all coins and notes issued since 1793 by the US government for use in the US are still legal tender. A government that arbitrarily demonetizes coins that it itself has issued is cheating its citizens.

 

It may well be a system that Americans are not familiar with. But I think the way it is done around here - completely take old pieces out of circulation if you issue new ones - is quite practical. In my opinion the best way to do it is to take the old money out of circulation but make it redeemable forever. (That happens to be what we do here in DE. )

But if a redemption period is "only" five or ten years, I don't really mind either. Again, we are not talking about currency reforms but mere replacements of older pieces, announced well in advance. No money is "lost" this way, and (except unsuspecting tourists maybe ...) nobody gets cheated.

Christian

 

How can you say that nobody gets cheated? Obviously, there are many people in the Eurozone who still have the old coins but can no longer redeem them. I have found hundreds of French francs, Dutch gulders, Italian lira, Portuguese escudos, Belgian francs in bags of foreign coins that have been brought back recently to Japan by Japanese travelers. Obviously, someone was stuck with these now worthless coins after the redemption period expired. I have 2000 French francs that would have been worth close to $400 before the redemption period ended, and now they are little more than scrap. Obviously, someone was stuck with these worthless coins before I got them.

The same goes for the demonetized UK coins-- Japanese travelers are still bringing them back to Japan, even though they were demonetized more than 13 years ago. Obviously, people in the UK were stuck with these coins, and either they are foisting them on unsuspecting tourists, or just giving them away because for all practical purposes they are not redeemable. Either way, they were cheated by their government.

 

World vs US.
Born in England I don't think of myself as a British coin collector that also collects world coins.
Now resident in Thailand I don't think of myself as a Thai coin collector that also collects world coins.
I collect world coins, period.
If you specialize only in collecting coins from one country then you are a US/German/Tajikistan etc. coin collector.

 

All those redemption periods have been published a long time ago, and people around here know about them of course. They will not know by heart which redemption period ends when but can easily look them up, or they will at least know the ones that are relevant for them. Italian pre-euro coins can still be redeemed by the way. (The next "deadlines" are in about a year from now, and that will also affect paper money of some countries.)

Sure, they may be travelers who on one hand hoard lots of foreign coins but do on the other hand not care about such issues at all. Well, as in other cases, assuming that everything in every country works just like at home has never been helpful. (Had a long discussion with somebody recently who said that tipping in his country is not common so why should he leave a 15-20 percent tip at US restaurants. Well, because things elsewhere may be different ...)

I do feel sorry for people who get cheated by merchants. Especially because replacing large coins with smaller varities, as in the UK, is a less "striking" change than replacing franc or mark cash with euro cash. But, if I ever got a driver's license in the US, would I say the government "cheats" because they need to be renewed every couple of years while I am used to licenses that do not expire? Or, if I wanted to get a newly issued silver coin in the US, would I complain if I cannot get it at face as I can here? Well, I might just do it.

Christian

 

I don't think you really understand the problem-- There is a HUGE difference between a driver's license and MONEY. A HUGE difference.

A US driver's license is not meant to be used as money. It has a stated expiration date. And it is not issued by the federal government, but rather by state governments, in large part to raise revenue. Nobody expects to get a refund on a driver's license.

Coins, on the other hand, are issued by governments to be used as a monetary medium of exchange by their citizens and whoever else is in the country. I believe that every government has the moral obligation to ensure that all coins that it issues should always be redeemable-- no ifs, ands, or buts about it-- always redeemable. Announcing a deadline for redemption is an underhanded way of cheating the public out of some of its money-- everyone might be aware of it, but there will always be caches of the coins that are found after the deadline has passed, but by then the coins are virtually worthless. Just like the 2000 French francs in my collection.

 

Oh, I do understand what you mean, but I do not share your view in this regard. As coin collectors we may believe that cash, and particularly coins, have an extremely high relevance. Practically however ... My examples were just supposed to show that things are different "elsewhere" - if you are American and live in Japan, you will certainly know that anyway.

What counts for me is that a redemption period is announced and published well in advance, and that the period itself is "reasonably" long. Sure, it is nice if one can use or redeem any money that a country has ever issued, but I don't find it that important. I know we have and will have different opinions as far as that is concerned.

As for the coins in your collection that can no longer be redeemed, well, there are two options: If they do not have any particular numismatic/collector value, it would have made sense to get rid of them during the redemption period. If they do, however, enjoy them.

Christian

 

a general question is "why do you collect coins" is it just for the monetary value of the piece as an investment? or is it because you find the coins interesting and pleasing to look at? personally i enjoy the latter and it makes absolutely no difference where the coin has originated from, for me one of the most beautiful coins ever issued was the french 20 franc mont san michel tri metal, the artwork in the relief is stunning and it is still one of my favourite coins in my collection although the value is pretty low. on the other hand the gothic crown from the UK is both beautiful and worth quite a lot of money as well, but to me both coins have an equal place in my collection. as for US coins the only set i havfe deliberately collected is the state quarters programme which i found really interesting and in some cases nice to look at, but as for the rest of the US coins i look at them as part of my collection exactly the same as my set from st helena and ascension.......

 

Then I guess we will have to disagree in this regard-- I am firmly of the belief that when a government issues coins for the general public to use in daily transactions, it has a social, moral and ethical obligation to see that no one is "left holding the bag" as it were. Coinage should not be like a game of Old Maid, where the last person holding the "Old Maid" (that is, "demonetized coinage") is the loser. If a country changes its currency unit, it has a social, moral and ethical obligation to see to it that everyone who holds the old coinage can exchange it at any time for the new currency, for as long as is needed, without limitation. Any country that changes or demonetizes its currency on a whim, regardless of prior notice, and limits the redemption period, is cheating its citizens, and everyone else who holds the old currency. I don't understand how someone could believe otherwise.

 

wright bros or Ukranian air force ?

 

Absolutely right. That is why such money does not suddenly lose its value but can be redeemed. And why such redemption periods are publicized ahead of time. And yes, different people may well have different opinions about what a government should do or not do, coin wise or in other regards.

Primarily the former. See here: http://www.cointalk.com/showthread.php?t=151796&p=1085229&viewfull=1#post1085229

Christian

 

The Japanese ¥100 dated Showa 33 (1958) had a mintage of 70-million, but except for uncirculated examples, its value lies entirely in its silver content of .0926 oz.

So far as the "world" vs. "foreign" argument goes, I call myself a world coin collector, because I have coins from about 165 countries at last count (with Japanese, US, British and Canadians dominating), and not a single extra-terrestrial specimen!